Discussion with Challma at beth

Posted by parhad on September 12, 2001 at 12:20:03:

>I agree with you till a certain degree, I must add that i only read the first couple of lines and not the rest.

>>>I could stop here as well then and comment on the rest of your letter without going any farther. I think however, that I'll read it all so I can understand you better, noit what I THINK you said.

But let me bring this to your attention. You are more familiar with the Arab/Islamic mentality than I am, as I was born in Holland and never lived in the M-E.

>>>Ahh, the whole point of my note was that there would be no end to any of this until we stop dividing people as to their basic needs and desires...no Arab wants anything differnt than you do.

Isn't it obvious to you what the Arabs/Muslems are like? How dispicable it is? No matter what Fred, you can't deny this has also been done with a great religious representation.

>>>In Islam you go to straight to hell if you commit suicide...no, it isn't religious at all...any more than those Protestants in Ireland screaming obscenities and throwing bombs at schoolgirls and their parents was a "religious" issue. People use what they want from Religions to mask their own inhumanity. Moslems are no different than Protestants or Catholics or Assyrians...at the core we're all the same pretty awful stuff and the same wonderful potential is in all of us. No child is different than any other until the priest or mullah or king or president gets his hands on him or her.

It is not solely something against the evil America, morely against the evil Christian Western countries.

>>>Moslems never invaded Britain or Germany or America...these countries, along with France and Belgium et al have routinely meddled in the MidEast...Islam has been fighting back for its life, not for gasoline.

Anyhow, now we are accusing people, let's look at how the other M-E countries deal with eachother.

>>>Do that, and while you're at it look at the Hundred Years War in Europe, the Thirty Year War in Europe, the Peasants War in Europe, the Seven Year war in Europe, The Napoleonic War in Europe, The Franco Prussian War in Europe, the First World War in Europe, the Second World war in Europe...then you'll have a better understanding of how people with the same religion, neighbors and all...can murder and rape each other.

>America attacked Iraq and helped other countries fight eachother by supplying arbitrarily weapons. I severly reject this, but now let's have a look at what other M-E countries do.
>Firstly when Iraq fought Iran millions and millions of people died.

>>>You have to first ask who propped the Shah up all those years, who made the borders after they defeated the Ottomans...then you should ask how the Shah was toppled, after leading OPEC in its first embargo...how Saddam came to have those weapons in the first place...how America sold to both sides and refused to "meddle" in the internal affairs etc...how a cleric like Khomeni was able to "capture" Iran...how it was that these two opposing sides of Islam bleed each other poor...how the US gave the green light to the attack on Kuwait...and how its managed to set them all at war among themselves by encouraging Israel. In all that time who was meddling with the United States???

After that, was one of both seen as a great evil state by the surrounding states? Was the rejection of two fighting countries as great as when America intervened in the M-E?? Ofcourse not.

>>>When you have an argument between brothers, you might not appreciate an outsider intervening...with his fists.

>Secondly America isn't the only country selling weapons to the M-E countries, Russia is nothing less when it comes to that.

>>>The issue is not selling weapons...everyone does it, it is business.

And it hypocritical to see how M-E countries are willing to use the Us to destroy Saddam and have the US to suppply them weapons, what caused a lot of hatred against the US, and now telling the US it had it coming because it intervenes too much.

>>>I have no idea what you were trying to say.

>The Arabs are not a single bit less hypocritical than the US.

>>>The fact that your neighbors, or people living ion another city ten thousand miles away from you are hypocrites, or drink wine laying down, or play their own music, does not entitle you to bomb them...neither does their having the oil you'd like to use up before depleting your own reserves give you that right.

And with their Islamic motives I hope the US will strike back severe, but of course let's hope for no more innocent victims at either site.
>FBS

>>>Innocent victims are exactly what we are talking about. You make it seem as if Islam calls on people to war and bloodshed. I would remind you again that the Bible contains far more bloody acts and calls to arms and divine commands that everyone be put to the sword..."even he that pisseth against a wall"...than the Koran has. Islam is just the religion of some murderous fanatics...as Christianity is the religion of other murderous fanatics. You people persist in your petty prejudiced views when you should see where this is all leading to. Accord the same respect you demand and things might improve.

But I doubt if you made it this far...your willingness to understand and explore things is mind numbing.

>>>fred

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: >I agree with you till a certain degree, I must add that i only read the first couple of lines and not the rest. : >>>I could stop here as well then and comment on the rest of your letter without going any farther. I think however, that I'll read it all so I can understand you better, noit what I THINK you said. : But let me bring this to your attention. You are more familiar with the Arab/Islamic mentality than I am, as I was born in Holland and never lived in the M-E. : >>>Ahh, the whole point of my note was that there would be no end to any of this until we stop dividing people as to their basic needs and desires...no Arab wants anything differnt than you do. : Isn't it obvious to you what the Arabs/Muslems are like? How dispicable it is? No matter what Fred, you can't deny this has also been done with a great religious representation. : >>>In Islam you go to straight to hell if you commit suicide...no, it isn't religious at all...any more than those Protestants in Ireland screaming obscenities and throwing bombs at schoolgirls and their parents was a "religious" issue. People use what they want from Religions to mask their own inhumanity. Moslems are no different than Protestants or Catholics or Assyrians...at the core we're all the same pretty awful stuff and the same wonderful potential is in all of us. No child is different than any other until the priest or mullah or king or president gets his hands on him or her. : It is not solely something against the evil America, morely against the evil Christian Western countries. : >>>Moslems never invaded Britain or Germany or America...these countries, along with France and Belgium et al have routinely meddled in the MidEast...Islam has been fighting back for its life, not for gasoline. : Anyhow, now we are accusing people, let's look at how the other M-E countries deal with eachother. : >>>Do that, and while you're at it look at the Hundred Years War in Europe, the Thirty Year War in Europe, the Peasants War in Europe, the Seven Year war in Europe, The Napoleonic War in Europe, The Franco Prussian War in Europe, the First World War in Europe, the Second World war in Europe...then you'll have a better understanding of how people with the same religion, neighbors and all...can murder and rape each other. : >America attacked Iraq and helped other countries fight eachother by supplying arbitrarily weapons. I severly reject this, but now let's have a look at what other M-E countries do. : >Firstly when Iraq fought Iran millions and millions of people died. : >>>You have to first ask who propped the Shah up all those years, who made the borders after they defeated the Ottomans...then you should ask how the Shah was toppled, after leading OPEC in its first embargo...how Saddam came to have those weapons in the first place...how America sold to both sides and refused to "meddle" in the internal affairs etc...how a cleric like Khomeni was able to "capture" Iran...how it was that these two opposing sides of Islam bleed each other poor...how the US gave the green light to the attack on Kuwait...and how its managed to set them all at war among themselves by encouraging Israel. In all that time who was meddling with the United States??? : : After that, was one of both seen as a great evil state by the surrounding states? Was the rejection of two fighting countries as great as when America intervened in the M-E?? Ofcourse not. : : >>>When you have an argument between brothers, you might not appreciate an outsider intervening...with his fists. : >Secondly America isn't the only country selling weapons to the M-E countries, Russia is nothing less when it comes to that. : >>>The issue is not selling weapons...everyone does it, it is business. : And it hypocritical to see how M-E countries are willing to use the Us to destroy Saddam and have the US to suppply them weapons, what caused a lot of hatred against the US, and now telling the US it had it coming because it intervenes too much. : : >>>I have no idea what you were trying to say. : >The Arabs are not a single bit less hypocritical than the US. : >>>The fact that your neighbors, or people living ion another city ten thousand miles away from you are hypocrites, or drink wine laying down, or play their own music, does not entitle you to bomb them...neither does their having the oil you'd like to use up before depleting your own reserves give you that right. : And with their Islamic motives I hope the US will strike back severe, but of course let's hope for no more innocent victims at either site. : >FBS : >>>Innocent victims are exactly what we are talking about. You make it seem as if Islam calls on people to war and bloodshed. I would remind you again that the Bible contains far more bloody acts and calls to arms and divine commands that everyone be put to the sword..."even he that pisseth against a wall"...than the Koran has. Islam is just the religion of some murderous fanatics...as Christianity is the religion of other murderous fanatics. You people persist in your petty prejudiced views when you should see where this is all leading to. Accord the same respect you demand and things might improve. : But I doubt if you made it this far...your willingness to understand and explore things is mind numbing. : : >>>fred

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