a minor point

Posted by Jeff on September 19, 2001 at 21:59:59:

In Reply to: Israel posted by parhad on September 19, 2001 at 09:44:48:

: Jews are an extremely patient people, and talk about keeping your eyes on the prize...they did it for over 2000 years till they got that prize back...only it was handed to them by a coalition of Christian monks and Nazis. No Jew of Vienna in 1931 would have ever chosen to go live in Palestine of all places. "Next year in Jerusalem" was a nice sentiment, but I doubt if many of the European Jews, at least, meant it.

: Israel is not content with its borders. I'm sure they're eyeing Lebanon and Syria...after all wasn't it Hitler who wanted "Liebenstraum"..."Living Space" for the German people...and didn't they learn many a lesson from him? I'm sure they are working for the "Long View", and in that scenario every little and great "A-rab" loss, is a gain to them.

: Still I, for one, don't blame them one bit. If the Palestinians have been suffering an injustice for the last sixty years, the Jews have suffered a far greater and murderous one for the last 2000 years. The Palestinians have lost nowhere near the lives and property the Jews did in just four years...on top of all the times in History when they were robbed and murdered at the slightest whim of any number of Christian countries. The Roman Empire chased them out of their homelands centuries ago, and the Roman Catholic Church has been chasing them ever since...even to the final insult of attempting to place a giant cross at Auschwitz...just to rub it in a little more.

: Their terrible history gives the Israelis no moral, legal or natural right to do what they are to the Palestinians and I firmly believe that in their heart of hearts the Israelis know exactly what they are doing, know what the Palestinians are feeling, even know the injustice of what they are doing to them. But you tell them what their alternative was?

: Their long pogrom of a history culminated in one of the most brutally efficient attempts to wipe out an entire people...the only really real Holocaust there has been in the Modern Era. Where there had been millions of them in Europe, they were reduced to a few hundred thousand...cowering individuals, most families having been torn apart. Their side "won" the War...where would YOU have them go? Back to a Europe where the pall of smoke from the charred and incinerated bodies of their loved ones still hung in the air? To Brazil or Argentina, where most of the surviving Nazis were welcomed...and where Jews were as hated as in any other Catholic country? The North Pole? The South? Antartica, Greenland...America??? Where could the refugees have settled that they would not have been hated, seen as outsiders, as they had so recently suffered the effects of this "status"?

: If, as Assyrians, we knew we were to be hated no matter where we settled, instead of welcomed in any Christian country as we are, where would our refugees most want to go? Wouldn't we too decide that it would be far better to live and fight and be hated and die and be buried in our ancient homelands? What's so odd in that? The Jews didn't bring the Holocaust down on their own heads as the Americans didn't "ask for it"...at least not the way Jerry Falwell said they did.

: That's what makes the Israeli Palestinian conflict so tricky. There are two competing Injustices of grand proportions taking place, and it is the European/Americans who are solving their own "Jewish" problem by dumping all over that region. But by the same token, they gave the Jews no other choice. As bitter of a pill as it is to swallow for them, the Arab world will have to absorb the Palestinians and improve the condition of their blighted lives... and the children who have been allowed to rot and fester in those camps will have to be given a true alternative. If not, the Israelis will, with America's backing, so bedevil that region that extremist Moslems will use their presence in the Mideast to gain power, giving America and Israel all the justification they need to attack those countries, or to stand back and simply watch those Arab states implode...all to Israel's benefit. There is no other way...

As much as I agree with almost everything that you said, the exception is "the only really real Holocaust there has been in
the Modern Era."

Not only were more than 2/3 of the Armenians killed (helped by Andreas and friends), but Hitler used their genocide as an example of what HE wanted THEIR genocide to be like against the Jews. There is a quote from Hitler, I'm sure you've heard it many times... he is trying to say that nobody will remember THIS genocide, because, after all... "Who today remembers the Genocide of the Armenians?"

To add insult to injury, their homeland that they got in 1991 isn't even close to their ancestral homeland which has <1% Armenians, and their historical landmarks have been eliminated by the Turks... Turkey has a blockade which hurts Armenia (how would the Jews have liked it if Israel happened to be sharing borders with Germany??) and which supports Azerbaijan in their war against Armenia. Let's not forget that some of the "Armenians" killed were Assyrians, a technicality since the dead are dead.

Just a minor point..

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Re: a minor point....point well made parhad 23:26:28 9/19/2001 (0)

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: : Jews are an extremely patient people, and talk about keeping your eyes on the prize...they did it for over 2000 years till they got that prize back...only it was handed to them by a coalition of Christian monks and Nazis. No Jew of Vienna in 1931 would have ever chosen to go live in Palestine of all places. "Next year in Jerusalem" was a nice sentiment, but I doubt if many of the European Jews, at least, meant it. : : Israel is not content with its borders. I'm sure they're eyeing Lebanon and Syria...after all wasn't it Hitler who wanted "Liebenstraum"..."Living Space" for the German people...and didn't they learn many a lesson from him? I'm sure they are working for the "Long View", and in that scenario every little and great "A-rab" loss, is a gain to them. : : Still I, for one, don't blame them one bit. If the Palestinians have been suffering an injustice for the last sixty years, the Jews have suffered a far greater and murderous one for the last 2000 years. The Palestinians have lost nowhere near the lives and property the Jews did in just four years...on top of all the times in History when they were robbed and murdered at the slightest whim of any number of Christian countries. The Roman Empire chased them out of their homelands centuries ago, and the Roman Catholic Church has been chasing them ever since...even to the final insult of attempting to place a giant cross at Auschwitz...just to rub it in a little more. : : Their terrible history gives the Israelis no moral, legal or natural right to do what they are to the Palestinians and I firmly believe that in their heart of hearts the Israelis know exactly what they are doing, know what the Palestinians are feeling, even know the injustice of what they are doing to them. But you tell them what their alternative was? : : Their long pogrom of a history culminated in one of the most brutally efficient attempts to wipe out an entire people...the only really real Holocaust there has been in the Modern Era. Where there had been millions of them in Europe, they were reduced to a few hundred thousand...cowering individuals, most families having been torn apart. Their side "won" the War...where would YOU have them go? Back to a Europe where the pall of smoke from the charred and incinerated bodies of their loved ones still hung in the air? To Brazil or Argentina, where most of the surviving Nazis were welcomed...and where Jews were as hated as in any other Catholic country? The North Pole? The South? Antartica, Greenland...America??? Where could the refugees have settled that they would not have been hated, seen as outsiders, as they had so recently suffered the effects of this "status"? : : If, as Assyrians, we knew we were to be hated no matter where we settled, instead of welcomed in any Christian country as we are, where would our refugees most want to go? Wouldn't we too decide that it would be far better to live and fight and be hated and die and be buried in our ancient homelands? What's so odd in that? The Jews didn't bring the Holocaust down on their own heads as the Americans didn't "ask for it"...at least not the way Jerry Falwell said they did. : : That's what makes the Israeli Palestinian conflict so tricky. There are two competing Injustices of grand proportions taking place, and it is the European/Americans who are solving their own "Jewish" problem by dumping all over that region. But by the same token, they gave the Jews no other choice. As bitter of a pill as it is to swallow for them, the Arab world will have to absorb the Palestinians and improve the condition of their blighted lives... and the children who have been allowed to rot and fester in those camps will have to be given a true alternative. If not, the Israelis will, with America's backing, so bedevil that region that extremist Moslems will use their presence in the Mideast to gain power, giving America and Israel all the justification they need to attack those countries, or to stand back and simply watch those Arab states implode...all to Israel's benefit. There is no other way... : As much as I agree with almost everything that you said, the exception is "the only really real Holocaust there has been in : the Modern Era." : Not only were more than 2/3 of the Armenians killed (helped by Andreas and friends), but Hitler used their genocide as an example of what HE wanted THEIR genocide to be like against the Jews. There is a quote from Hitler, I'm sure you've heard it many times... he is trying to say that nobody will remember THIS genocide, because, after all... "Who today remembers the Genocide of the Armenians?" : To add insult to injury, their homeland that they got in 1991 isn't even close to their ancestral homeland which has <1% Armenians, and their historical landmarks have been eliminated by the Turks... Turkey has a blockade which hurts Armenia (how would the Jews have liked it if Israel happened to be sharing borders with Germany??) and which supports Azerbaijan in their war against Armenia. Let's not forget that some of the "Armenians" killed were Assyrians, a technicality since the dead are dead. : Just a minor point.. :

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