Posted by Jeff (reposted by Jeff) from LTU-207-73-65-124.LTU.EDU (207.73.65.124) on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 at 6:39AM :
In Reply to: Re: Gifvilte Fish!!! posted by Qasrani(reposted by Jeff) from LTU-207-73-65-124.LTU.EDU (207.73.65.124) on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 at 6:38AM :
Qasrani: Re: Gifvilte Fish!!!
Posted By: Jeff <jeff@attoz.com> (LTU-207-73-65-124.LTU.EDU)
Date: Wednesday, 10 July 2002, at 6:33 a.m.
Re: Gifvilte Fish!!!
Posted By: Qasrani <qasrani2003@yahoo.com> (ACC10645.ipt.aol.com)
Date: Tuesday, 9 July 2002, at 8:50 p.m.
In Response To: Gifvilte Fish!!! (Jeff Atto)
Jeff,
I think that's why I prefaced my statement with "Kurdistan is not a country."
And Assyrian children in all those REAL countries grew up and went on to study at the most prominent universities worldwide.
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Qasrani,
Not all Assyrians born in the west went on to become successful in prominent universities worldwide. We have our share of drug dealers, criminals, and other non educated people. Take ANY ethnic group... bomb their homeland... watch them come to America and/or the west in general, and some of them will inevitably become successful in Europe and America. Look at how successful the Asian ethnic groups are in higher education. We don't compare.
: I fear that this generation of "Kurdistani Assyrians" (God, may it never happen!) will never have the opportunity or the wherewithall to compete.
*****
What you may not realize is that back before the Gulf War, Iraq hosted seminars and symposia on every scientific subject, with doctors coming from around the world to learn the latest research. I happen to know quite a few former Iraqi (Chaldean) physicists, chemists, doctors who used to travel the world going to these academic events... Iraq was at the forefront and if the people are ever given a chance again (that is, if this open ended war ever ends), I am confident that they will be just as successful. I sense in you an underlying dislike for all things "kurd".
No, I will NOT take a bathey.
: So, why should we cower?
******
I still don't understand your use of the word "cower". Let me ask you something. First, some facts. Less than 5% of the people in the North are Assyrian. A friend of mine recently came back from there and he told me this himself...
So, let's say you live in the North with this tiny, tiny minority and the majority offers you a few seats in the Parliament, and offers to take a few of your expert and make them the secretaries of energy or something... or maybe housing... would you say no??
That's ridiculous.
: So that we can have some piddley symbolic seat in a powerless parliament?
******
That powerless parliament has effective control over millions in the north. Where are you getting these ideas from?
: Or so some guy can flout around the world as the token (Assyrian-Christian) minister of some empty portfolio. I met Mr. Hozaya, the Kurdistani minister of transportation and industry, and I was disgusted that the person introducing him by his ministerial title was doing so with such pride...
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I bet you wouldn't be so disgusted if it was an Uncle Tom Assyrian in America who was the mayor of a small town or a district judge or something. You would be so proud!
: I don't know Mr. Hozaya and didn't get to know him much in our brief exchange, but any Assyrian that would give any credence to a Kurdish state or anything resembling that is a traitor by all counts.
*****
There we go again. That's the old argument. I have a breaking news story for you: The Assyrians are NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER going to have a homeland. Does this make me a terrorist in a bathey? Should I go move to Afghanistan? No.
In this day and age, Qasrani, people don't just get countries. Assyrians lived in Iraq and they live in America.... as in Russia, europe, and other areas in the world. Even if the Assyrians were 90-100% of the population in a city in America, in Europe, or in the Middle East, they would not be offered their own country in that area.
The west will not simply come and "save" the poor wittle assyrian christians. No.
Raman used the example of Israel...saying that what they got was "by force" and we should use force. Do you understand how ridiculous that statement is? Israel is nothing but a pawn of the United States. Wait about 30 years, until the oil in Saudi Arabia runs dry....see if the US still supports Israel, if it hasn't self-destructed by then. Any country whose foundation has already rotted (that is, a country that discriminates against a minority like the Palestinians) will never succeed. Furthermore, do you suppose that 50,000 Assyrians in the North can defeat 2 or 3 million Kurds in battle??
: As a representative of the Kurdish government, he is explicitly standing as a Kurdish rep. Tfeh! (as the Lebanese would say) [:)]
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No comment there.
: Anyhow, this is my opinion and solely my opinion although any support for my conclusions are wholeheartedly welcomed. [:)]
: Lastly, Kurdish nationalism is as infantile as Assyrian nationalism. Albeit, we've made much greater strides and they haven't grown out of tribalism and (probably) never will (thank God for that!)
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I wholeheartedly disagree. Sorry. Please tell me what greater strides we have made.
: And if I had to choose between a secular arab state and a tribal puppet government, I'd go with the former every time. I venture to guess that the Kurds would not be so accomodating if they didn't have the eyes of the world watching how they treated the Assyrians. (And must I mention that they STILL manage to kill Assyrians and expropriate Assyrian-owned property.)
****
And I suppose what David and the Doc has told us about the north is a lie??
: I wish I can use some expletives to describe this stuff, but the moderator would toss this post out. Expletive!!! Expletive!!! Expletive!!!
Pshena, V
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Right back atcha!
:-)
: ***
-- Jeff (reposted by Jeff)
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