Posted by pancho from pool0922.cvx24-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (209.179.213.157) on Friday, November 22, 2002 at 0:51AM :
In Reply to: Re: Not All Palestinians Are Muslim... posted by sankho from CPE-203-45-1-117.vic.bigpond.net.au (203.45.1.117) on Thursday, November 21, 2002 at 9:42PM :
: : Wait a minute...prior to Saddam's falling for the the United States' con job...
: >>> It's the same old line: "America gave Saddam the green light". Ziiiiiirt!! When some leader of some country fucks up it's because America gave him the green light; and in the same breath people who use this line say "America can't tell noone what to do man! Who do they think they are?" Excuses are used to suit the situation.
+++Senate hearings in this country...not Australia...confirmed the ambassador to Iraq told Saddam this country had no problem with that regional question of attacking Kuwait...neither did we mind much when we were selling to both sides in the Iran Iraq war and egging them on.
+++Had we not found out the turth about the Gulf of Tonkin you'd still be saying everyone blames everything on America...like it WANTED to get into a war in Vietnam.. you understand Iraq "well"...and not a whole lot else.
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: Iraq was doing very well, thank you.
: >>>Very well according to what standars?
+++As you sit there in Sydney or wherever, up to your arse in whipping cream...ask the Aboriginees if they're enjoying life...and by whose standards.
+++The jails in America right now are filled with people wrongfully accused and racially profiled...and now they can arrest whomever they want to and charge the person with terror acts and that's the last you'll hear of him or her. By Iraqi standards...a country that had been attacked not a few times by the Brits...that America and France were all circling round like sharks...countries known to tempt "dissidents" as they are doing right now...such a country coming out of two world wars brought to them courtesy of the Christian West, with an Israel planted down among them because the Europeans couldn't murder them all, another bright "oops" of your vaunted West (I know...they weren't looking for YOU)...such a country is bound to be unnerved and prone to paranoia. The United States was attacked for ONE DAY and already we have altered so many things...curtailed our civil liberties, set up spy networks, Homeland Security...and that's just what we know about. ONE ATTACK...the most powerful and richest country on earth has gone ape shit...and you expect Iraq or Iran or Syria and Turkey to set a standard you'd be satisfied with...there in Australia.
Wasn't 'very well' for political dissidents left to stew in sewerage up to their chests for a few days to help them join the Bathys;
+++Wen Ho Lee sat in solitary for nine months with nary a charge sustained against him in the end...prison rape is regularly used to punish and discipline, or just humiliate and empower those who are themselves stripped of any dignity. All 58 charges against Lee were dropped except one bogus one...and the judge gave the government a good drubbing and apologized...that wont happen again because people will be accused of aiding terror and the rest of it...and we'll never hear of them again.
+++Iraq and the rest of the Mideast....Asia and Latin America are indeed interferred with and yes the United States is to blame for much of the destabilization that takes place around the world...just as the Brits before them. You think the United States wants a free and developed Mexico and Latin America and Asia and Middle East...really? Is that why they've supported only freedom loving democrats and liberals...or the most dismal collection of thugs the world has seen in some time.
or for all those thousands killed in the First Gulf War that the Baathys started to expand their 'property'...ooops, sorry, I forgot, America is to blame for that too, I'm so naive; I forget that America runs EVERYTHING and that people can't make choices for themselves and the Elders of Zion are behind everything too. That's right it's the E of Zion wanting to screw Iraq....
++++You're beginning to break up...either you're just tweaking me and don't believe this drivel...or you've sucked too much gas.
: You try running a country that has such furious religious squabbles...not to mention a wide gap between rich and poor...modern and backward.
: >>>> the Baathys tried.... unfortunately they are TOTALLY inept.
: : After the Revolutionary War in America...this country stole human beings and brought them here to rape in order to breed more product...we also jailed George Mason for debt because this patriot extended himself to borrow, beg and almost steal money for Washington'e armies...who had none. In gratitude and because of their laws...they jailed him, till his friends shamed the country into paying his debts...THEIR debts. Why do people become so unhinged, make themselves so damn stupid just to win a point for THEIR side. The people on this planet are ALL "your" people.
: : Try being a Shah and opening your country up while Mullahs squat on you. Then try all of this with the CIA and who knows what else infiltrating your country, bribing and buying and bumping people off.
: >>>Just can't help thinking 'darkies' can't cope with modernity, the modern world, very well.
+++The white man has succeeded in planting self-loathing in you. You overlook all the barbarity of the Christian West, because it holds enough goodies for you...personally. saddam works the same way...if it's good for him, screw the others.
They need to learn to 'play ball'; the rules have changed a bit since Mohamed's times....
++++Okay...I get it now. Whatever you say.
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: : Hell we just stopped lynching Blacks a few years ago...just what makes our horrors acceptable and gives us the right to go find fault with others?
: >>> America's horrors are not acceptable at all.... that's another story
++++Jeez!
:
: Amnesty International has been slamming this country for years for our own violations of Human Rights.
: : Just what actual evidence is there aginst Saddam, prior to 1980?
: >>>Are you asking for real??????????
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: Who did he kill? Just what did he do to Christians and Christian Assyrians?
: >>>>>>>His plans were taking effect slowly
+++Really? And who told you about his "palns"...do you believe there was a conspiracy involved? I thought things just happened all by themselves?
.... you can't go from elected pres to despot in two months; come on Fred, YOU need to get of YOUR happy pills. You don't like America's horrors ok, but now YOU'RE getting unhinged with all this 'I don't buy the Saddam shit'.... paaaaaaaaallllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeze!!!!!!!!
+++You are speaking as one who hates what Saddam has done...believe me there are many more people who hate what Nixon did and Ford, and the Two Bushes and Clinton too. depends on where you stand...I stand with the ones who are being trampled supposedly for my sake, for my benefit. If it was for my benefit...it would be for their's too. I stood with Tom Paine and Jefferson and I stood with Aguinaldo and Malcolm and Castro and Che and many many others...they have all fought tyranny and they were all damaged by the fight and many became tryrants in their turn...and had to be overthrown also in their turn.
+++I renounce all forms of violence...because it plays into the hands of the oppressor. There is no way we can match them in firepower...and besides it just takes us back to the same barbarity. But first and foremost, I'm going to rip the wool from before my eyes and get the jingoes out of my head.
+++Saddam is not a friend of mine...but I know who supports him and benefits from him...as the Israelis created Hamas...and used it to divide the Palestinians....as a prelude to stealing more of their lands. I am with people...whoever they are, Americans, Jews, Palestinians who are being used to line the pockets of the same power mad people we've been afflicted with for thousands of years.
+++The fact that Saddam is a shit is no good excuse for killing the people...and that's what is going to happen.
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: I don't buy all the bull about how he wanted to make Assyrian history into Arab history. That bit of myopia comes from our "experts" who claim Iraq is an Arab country...and then say anything Iraqi is really Arab...and since Saddam is president of Iraq and NOT Assyria or Chaldea or Babylon...and since he wants to pull his people together to identify themselves as one nation...largely again because of the circling sharks of the West...he gets blasted for making people into "Arabs"...when what he wants is a nation of Iraqis. There are no Arabs in Iraq.
: >>>>hahaha what??!!! That's original! Yes ok they are all moslem Assyrians because their genes are Assyrian.
+++Religion is irrelevant...the people born and raised in Iraq are the descendants of all the people who ever inhabited that land. I have no business with genes...and I don't believe in blood purity...I believe in a persons actions...and right now our Christian Assyrians are eager to attack Iraq...to "save" it of course...and the people in Iraq are trying to live their lives as best they can...and they do indeed revere their past ALL OF IT. Whereas these Australian and American Assyrians weep ONLY for their jew knockoff religion.
Rot. People are what they call themselves, If your kids 'assimilate' into American society, lose their language and culture, who'll care that in 200 years they were genetically Assyrian?
+++Told you...being geneticall anything isn't important...this isn't an anthropology lesson...we're talking about people who live in a country that has one hell of a Heritage...people who love their homes...love their hills and rivers and mountains, and fight like hell to preserve their land against external AND internal violence and mayhem. I don't care if Iraq becomes peopled by Italians who in 1000 years have become Iraqi...and who work like hell to preserve the Assyrian and every othert heritage in theat land.
+++Genetic purity is for fascists...ahem. Of what use is genetics when defining Americans...or Australians? Can people NEVER become Australians because they don't have Australian genes? What the hell is an Australian gene anyway? Are its chromosomes vulger and beer bellied?
They will be 100% pure all-beef American, Italian, Spanish, whatever country they reside in....so long as they identify that way. Who cares that Iraqi's wrere 'Assyrian'? They identify 100% with Arab culture, the language, way of life etc
+++And you make a damn fine Australian. Oncde again...the people of Arabia are Arabs...you don't become the nationality of your language...Americans are not English...neither do you become the nationality of your prophet or messiah...Canadians are not Israelis...and Iraqis are not Arabs. They are a part of the Arab speaking world...as we see ourselves allied with the English speaking world...where's the wonder in that?
There are 4 million Arabic speaking Turks in the region between Mardin and Turabdin. Their way of life looks so Assyrian despite the fact that they speak Arabic and are Moslem [oops]. I met with one man who is the head of a growing group of 'Mhalmoyeh' that say they are Assyrian.... many don't feel this way, just like many Oromoye and Chaldeans say Assyrians don't exist. So this Mhalmeen says he is Assyrian so he is.... the others say they aren't so they aren't. Who are YOU to say that Iraqis aren't Arab they are Assyrian. It's laughable.
++++The are Assyrianbecause they live in the land of the ancient Assyrians...just as Italians in Ireland are Irish because they live in the ancient Gaelic lands. define your terms...I'm not interested in genes and blood...I'm interested in actions. What does it matter that there are genetic Assyrians who act nothing like it? Verb...Doc, not genes.
++++You are Australian now and your children will be more so. The people of Iraq are Iraqi...they are not Arabs...language doesn't make you Arab any more than it makes New Yorkers British. The people of Iraq are the most Assyrian of anyone anywhere. They have the land, the treasures and NO ONE is speaking Assyrian anywhere...it's Aramaic and all sorts of additions and dialects. It's a verb, remember? Iraqis are trying to preserve what exists there against the greatest odds...what have Australinas done for the Assyrian lands...where the heart and soul of ancient Assyria is? Right...not a damn thing.
: : Ashcroft and Bush want us all to be one kind of American...
: >>>they want your loyalties to be first with America; the rest is up to you; Ive never seen a country so diverse as America. It's the Babylon of today.
++++Diverse? really. What makes for diversity, clothes...hairstyle? The people of America are being herded into narrower and narrower corrals.
++++Saddam wants his people's loyalties also...the rest is up to them.
: they're going to be looking out for un-American...un-cooperative...un-stupid people soon, and they could lock them away and we'll never know about it. Are you free just because you're ignorant and clueless?
: >>>the opposite
+++Of course the opposite...you are mistaking opportunism for ideals. If the freedom you have is bought for you by the misery and suffering of other people...you are not Free at all.
+++And do try to remember that Gibran loved Arabic...yet we know he wasn't "Arab".
: : How quickly we all run down the path pointed out to us.
: >>> seen it for myself. Don't like predigested stuff, personally.
+++That's odd...because your arguments have a pre-chewed, pre-digested and spit up quality to them...you would make Bush proud.
-- pancho
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