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=> Re: to my sem*i*nary pal...

Re: to my sem*i*nary pal...
Posted by parhad (Guest) - Tuesday, December 9 2003, 19:07:47 (EST)
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Andy Younan wrote:
>Farid ol' buddy,
>
>Here I am, sitting in Berkeley thinking you'd forgotten all about me, and out of nowhere I gets an e-mail from our mutual fiend saying the opposite. Imagine my excitement: it's been, what, six months? How're the wife and lawsuits?

***The wife and kids are fine, thank you. The lawsuit is winding its way up Jackieīs shorts and should arrive any day soon. I trust we can look forward to seeing you in the gallery...sheīs gonna need the last rites or absolution or something.
>
>Anyway, enough ceremony:

***I should think so...considering what you do for a living.
>
>>...drowning in his own semen...
>
>I know you're better than that, Farid.

***Ahhh...you sure you know what you meant by that? Thatīs a non-nothin to begin with. Do you mean I should be ashamed of myself for refering to your semen? Why...ainīt got any? Obviously the men in your profession have a lot of it...much of which they canīt keep out of the bodies of children entrusted to their tender mercies...but I donīt want to get sidetracked by the awful realities of what a lifetime of infantile preoccupations can do to otherwise decent people...full speed ahead and damn the semen.
>
>>We've had some heated emails sent back and forth and you've always been the gentleman...even when I refused to be.
>
>You're wrong. You were always very good to me.

***Okay...letīs quit stroking the old fart...as a Christian nee Jew...you people never feel more loved than when youīre being chewed on.

After all, telling something the truth - even if they're too stubborn to accept it - is one of the most virtuous acts of all. You have what you think to be a great and obvious truth, and you wanted to tell me...and any rhetorical device you used, however crude, at times, was for my own good. How else to shake someone out of a stupor, eh? I thank you, as always, for your concern.

****Man could you sell CARS!
>
>> That's just your Mesopotamian backgrond showing through and it tells you how good a thing it is when all that Judo-Christian shit can't smother it. But...like Paul Younan, another decent man gone wrong,
>
>Never heard of him, but I like his name.

***Good man...very good indeed. He tried his damndest to be decent and appear open but in the end that old Jew cornpone got to him and he had to put his foot down...right in his mouth.
>
>> you've chosen to believe a handful of incompetant Jew fishermen...and we all know fishermen "never lie"...and so you believe in a resurrection...when you can't even handle an errection without making a holy fuss about it.
>
>Ok, that's a LITTLE better than the "drowning in semen" bit. But not by much.

****Warch it...I was willing to leave semen out of this but errections come right before and am I wrong in thinking not a one of you in there can handle one without breaking ten holy laws.
>
>>You have your reasons I'm sure.
>
>Indeed.

***Not a lot to say...have we?
>
>> I'm writing to you on an open forum because I expect you to live up to what you told me in all seriousness once...that you and each of us should live up to Christ's example...follow in this tough and thorny path. Well Christ wasn't anonymous and he wasn't afraid...I'll give him that. You...who have no Roman centurions to fear...who are surrounded on all sides and drowning in Christians and upheld by Christians and murdered for by Christians...who have nothing to fear from anyone for stepping out in public with your "believes"...are nonetheless afraid. If you tell me you haven't the time to waste, I'll remind you of Jesus...who had a whole lifteime to throw away. If you say people like me aren't worth the effort, I'll remind you of Magdalene. If you tell me about swine and pearls...I'll tell you about what the Jews did to our history and how I forgive them for it for they never knew what they were doing more than when they knew enough to steal from us and how can I blame them for it?
>
>Blah blah blah blah. Come on. When have I ever turned down one of your requests?

***Iīm losing the hope I had earlier. This is worthy of Andreas...itīs just dodge and cut and run with a tepid attempt to appear to be standing at the mark. Damn.
>
>> But again...you have your reasons and how much of it has to do with a child's fear of the dark I'll leave to you to figure out if you want to.
>
>...for once. I'm glad. I never bought your brand of psychoanalysis...telling me I'm afraid of death so I invent Hell and call myself a sinner to make myself feel better.

***First I ever heard that nonsense. I donīt psychoanalize...thatīs a name you give it so you can feel comfortable brushing it aside...I just ask you questions you canīt answer without that old dodge..."Itīs a question of Faith". And when that wears thin you have the gall to refer to Greek Philosophers and others you neither understand at all...learned to parrot, yes...and who wouldnīt have understood you or spent ten minutes in a "Faith-based" conversation with you. An engineer has to have more than "Faith" his bridge will stand up...especially if his faith also extends to using bubble gum to build it with.
>
>>I should share with you what it was that clarified things for me. I put it to you once when we were out for dinner on John Nimrod that any decent human Bean would have rushed to help Jesus, there on that hill about to be murdered. And if that proved to be impossible...would hardly have agreed to benefit anyway once he'd been killed. But it was your answer when I asked you, point blanke, if you would release him if it were in your power..even if it meant no Eternal Paradise but a rotten grave instead that cleared it all up for me. Being a decent man underneath it all, you said you would save Jesus. But, there was the hesitation in your voice.
>
>Hmmm...let's cut through some of the crap before I get to that:

***Andy, Andy, Andy...I almost wish now youīd just ignored me some more.
>
>>You and many others of our own people, are indeed decent and kind. Coming from the illustrious Heritage we do, its in us even when we won't show it. We've been degraded by this Jew religion not elevated. The fearful, scared-of-the-dark Jew in you...that is never a comfortable fit...wanted badly to say, "Fuck Christ...how else am I going to avoid rotting". But the better side...the part of you from BetNahrain, fought through and no matter how afraid of death...which is another way of being afraid of Life, you've been made to feel...you would shatter all your comforting illusions...risk perdition...the dark and dank grave...even court uncertainty because something deep within in you of the decent man you are under the Christian fright-wig said, "I would set him free".
>
>Blah blah blah...
>
>>You're inherently a good and decent...even brilliant man.
>
>Silly. I'm a simpleton at best. You're just trying to set up "the crowd" so they expect too much from me. Very clever of you.
>
>> If only Life and Honor didn't scare you so.
>
>I thought you'd leave the psychobabble to me? Anyway, let's get started...
>
>Being the nerd I am, I was hoping you wouldn't mind indulging me and letting me at least define what we're talking about.
>
>We've gotten through the Resurrection thingy - a fun little ride, if I recall - and at the end I gave you my reasons and you said they were stupid and I said I don't care if you think they're stupid and that was the end of that.

***Brilliant.

No need to resurrect that one. Arguing about what may or may not have happened a long time ago is boring, anyway. What do you think: did Socrates drink hemlock or sherlock or some other poison? Or did he exist at ALL? Or was he really a SHE? I'll leave that one to the Germans, if you don't mind.

***Itīs good you bring up the Germans and yes it does matter when Christians give hemlock to children...but letīs not babble.
>
>The other history thingy is boring, too...you know...would Christianity have survived if Constantine blah blah blah and the Inquisition blah blah blah and the Crusades blah blah blah blah. I don't care. Also, the whole "objective history" myth is SO 19th Century. You know...hermeneutics and all that.

***Youīre the kid in the coffe shop on campus all over again...a wise parrot.
>
>No, the interesting thing is the one you're so proud of: the whole "Christianity redefined," or, as you call it, "Christianity as it REALLY IS!!!" bit. We can talk about that, if you want.
>
>So, your bit is this (correct me if I'm wrong): Christianity is, at core, about the murder of an innocent man and the benefits that are given by accepting his death. Right? And this explains the only things that have ever happened in Christian history: the crusades, the inquisition and blah blah blah.

***Do you really think the blah blahs settle the points raised?
>
>I've got to hand it to you: it all fits together quite nicely.
>
>Before I go on, I have a couple requests, if you could be so kind:
>
>1) When I use the Bible or some other churchy thing to explain something, I'm doing so because they are authoritative voices in Christianity, not because I think they PROVE anything. They tell us what the whole thing MEANS; they don't work as evidence. OK?

***Not "evidence"...but they tell what the whole thing MEANS?
>
>2) Please please please don't go the route of the Evangelicals - those Christians you detest the most, I suspect - and start telling me what I believe and what it means to me. Here's the average conversation I've had with an Evangelical:
>
>Me: "I'm Catholic."
>
>Evangelical: "You worship statues."
>
>Me: "No I don't."
>
>Evangelical: "Worshipping statues is against the Bah-bil."
>
>Me: "I know. I don't worship statues."
>
>Evangelical: "Yes you do. You also worship Mary."
>
>Me: "No I don't."
>
>Evangelical: "Yes you do. Worshipping Mary is against the Bah-bil."
>
>Me: "I know."
>
>And so on. Anyway, I know you won't be telling me what is or isn't against the Bah-bil, but you do, on occasion, slip into the "you believe this whether you know it or not" attitude.

***I got your beliefs from you but as you never examine them because they just ARE...they sound odd to you when delved into and played back sans the faith bullshit...isnīt my fault you donīt reflect on your believes...maybe thatīs why theyīre so comforting...itīs one place you can be dumb with godīs blessings.
>
>That said, there are a few flaws in your bit:
>
>1) If you're going to interpret Christianity fairly, you've got to interpret the whole thing - down to the last jot and tittle. And you're missing a few important tittles:

***I think whatīs coming is your idea of evidence...but it canīt be questioned cause when youīre done youīll add ten blahs and tell me you just believe it to be true.
>
>A) Christians believe that Christ is God. Not "a god" or "a godly man," but God. The second Person of the Trinity - all three of whom are equally God; "The Word was in the beginning with God and the Word was God" and all that. This has been the belief of Christians since the beginning - the very first heresy, in fact (first Century) denied that Christ was a man.

***Well that about settles it...you just told me youīre crazy but have every right to be crazy if you want to be...and besides youīve all been crazy for some time. I donīt care what sort of private insanity you suffer from...what you wonīt acknowledge is that while you may be innocent crazy...the majority of the people who believe as you do go further and kill people over it...and while itīs true they might kill them anayway...this god of yours allows them to wash their consciences again and again...while you pray.
>
>B) I've told you before that I don't believe that goodness or justice were invented by Christianity - some people seem to, but not Catholics (remember all the Virtuous Pagans in Dante?)

***Are there any virtuous pagan Assyrians you could have refernced or is self-loathing your thing as well?

. Christianity - as a moral system - is not here to invent the wheel (that was done in Iraq a long time before Christianity). It is here - again, in its moral capacity - to be the clearest possible expression of morality - one that ANYONE can get, if they're open to it, and not just the philosophers and Great Ones (among whom you reign supreme, if I may say so).

***Whoīs kissing what on whom now?

What could be clearer than this: "to be a good person is to love others, and look, God has shown us what love is by dying for us. Oh yeah: also, love means self-sacrifice."

***No it doesnīt. Itīs a lot harder to live because of love and for love than it is to die for it. Dying is easy. Love does not mean self-sacrifice...it means self-love first of all...itīs just that you guys define that term too in the barbarous ways you define everything else...so you can use it against people. How can you teach math by sacrifing all the math you might learn first? To love oneself is the greatest expression of love...not to love a dead Jew and then say he loved you so much he went out and got killed to prove it.

***You think self-love means taking the biggest slice for yourself...so you teach denying yourself the biggest and then ANY slice...and guess where all those slices go to? You people want to skip knowing yourselves...caring for yourselves...loving yourselves...but want to jump off a bridge yelling THIS WAY IS LOOOOOOOOVVVVEEEEEEE."
>
>So those are two points I'd ask you too keep in mind when discussing Christianity. And another thing:
>
>2) God has died for me.

***What can a person say to that? You might as well tell me youīre Napoleon. This is humility? God died for YOU? He couldnīt find a better way to make an idiot of you? You think you owe him your sanity for that? And how do you know he did...unless itīs those same truth-telling Jew Fishermen youīre so pleased with.

I benefit from that death - both by the clarity of the example he gave me and by the grace that comes forth from his death that strengthens me to do all I do. How does that make me a bloody savage? How does accepting a gift - even a great gift (which means a gift bought at a great price) ruin a conscience?

***Just to say those words..."I benefit from that death", sets you down in the book of Blackguards and Creeps. Why the hell SHOULD you benefit? Even if someone is willing to die for you...why on earth would you accept such a horrible "gift"? And you have the balls....sorry...you have the guts...sorry...you have the WORDS to ask whatīs wrong with it and why you shouldnīt???
>
>There's a girl at school here in Berkeley whom I'm friends with. Nicest girl I've ever met. She was going to Rome this Winter, and had her ticket bought and everything, but then, when she found out I was going to be ordained a deacon on January 10th, she CHANGED HER TRIP TO COME HOME EARLY to go to my ordination.

***You write that word one more time and itīs going to look more like "urination" than it does now.

This all without my knowledge. When I found out, I was overwhelmed. Imagine: leaving ROME (a city you can appreciate even without being a Pagan) to come to DETROIT (the #1 most dangerous city in America) for someone as silly and inconsequential as me. How should I react to that? Would I have stopped her if I knew she was going to do this? HELL YES I WOULD HAVE. But now what? Reject it because her gift to me is causing her inconvenience and pain (if you've been to Detroit you know what I mean)? Should I not pick her up at the airport?? Even worse: what if I ACCEPT this? Does that destroy my conscience? Will I go around from now on DEMANDING that people change their vacation plans because I feel like going out and getting a spot of tea?

***Jesus I wish on of them Greeks was here to see this. You MUST be joking...right? This is a gag...a trick to trip me up...right? Your urination and a postponed trip to Rome are anywhere near to the same thing in where your mind would have been had you not pissed it away for your urination?
>
>Anyway, that's all I have for now. I'll be praying for you, as always, Farid. You were always a better man than I. It's just this whole "fear of religion" complex that messes you up at times. I won't try to psychoanalyze it, though.

***Iīm pleased you can spell it. You have more bugaboos than anyone your age I ever met...who was let loose in society. Your mind is that of a juvenile delinquent crazy for crimes of death and rebirths and human sacrifice...one who delights in thinking he benefited from a GREAT GIFT of murder most foul...but what the hell...might as well go pick Christ up at the airport.

***You donīt kid me for minute...this kant you just delivered is supposed to show you arenīt afraid to come out of the closet, as a Christian and "proud of it too"!

***This is the ultimate crime you people commit...you shred the minds of other young children...and any real god anywhere would damn you to his presence for an eternity for that. A witch doctor on the island of Tobago couldnīt have explained his "Faith" any better than you did.

***Take a break...watch some more TV...and write again...and please urinate BEFORE you do this time.

farid


>
>Your TV pal,
>
>Andy



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