The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum

=> Re: to my sem*i*nary pal...

Re: to my sem*i*nary pal...
Posted by Farid (Moderator) - Wednesday, December 10 2003, 19:59:28 (EST)
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Andy Younan wrote:
>Farid,
>
>Let's get through the silly stuff first:
>
>>>>...drowning in his own semen...
>>>
>>>I know you're better than that, Farid.
>>
>>***Ahhh...you sure you know what you meant by that? Thatīs a non-nothin to begin with. Do you mean I should be ashamed of myself for refering to your semen?
>
>Boy, SOMEbody's grumpy. I was just saying that you're usually more clever than that. Take it easy.

+++Because you say, "god died for me" OR..."take it easy, you're grumpy"...neither necessarily mean anything...come on, I'm not one of your church fathers...pay attention and quit the jesuitical crap.
>
>>>You're wrong. You were always very good to me.
>>
>>***Okay...letīs quit stroking the old fart...as a Christian nee Jew...you people never feel more loved than when youīre being chewed on.
>
>And you can't even take an honest compliment!

+++You said I was setting you up for the crowd...I'm just returning the sentiment.
>
>>>Ok, that's a LITTLE better than the "drowning in semen" bit. But not by much.
>>
>>****Warch it...I was willing to leave semen out of this but errections come right before and am I wrong in thinking not a one of you in there can handle one without breaking ten holy laws.
>
>I assume that was a question. Answer: yes, you're wrong.

+++That you "handle" the semen I have no doubt...that you know what to do with it is another matter entirely.
>
>>***Iīm losing the hope I had earlier. This is worthy of Andreas...itīs just dodge and cut and run with a tepid attempt to appear to be standing at the mark. Damn.
>
>I was only accepting your invitation, ol pal. No dodges here - nothing to dodge, really.
>
>>***First I ever heard that nonsense. I donīt psychoanalize...thatīs a name you give it so you can feel comfortable brushing it aside...
>
>There you go again...telling me how I feel. You're doing a LOT of that nowadays:

+++You get paid to tell children what they ought to feel AND think...come on.
>
>>>Hmmm...let's cut through some of the crap before I get to that:
>>
>>***Andy, Andy, Andy...I almost wish now youīd just ignored me some more.
>
>When have I ever ignored you?

+++You ignore when you talk...you run when you engage...you turn your back when you're called upon to stand and deliver...you ignore a lot of things but we're not cycleanalizing you here.
>
>>>The other history thingy is boring, too...you know...would Christianity have survived if Constantine blah blah blah and the Inquisition blah blah blah and the Crusades blah blah blah blah. I don't care. Also, the whole "objective history" myth is SO 19th Century. You know...hermeneutics and all that.
>>
>>***Youīre the kid in the coffe shop on campus all over again...a wise parrot.
>
>And the name calling...how I missed it! Ok, that was sarcastic. I didn't miss it. The name calling, I mean.

+++Keep your Blahs to yourself...styrofoam won't do.
>
>I'll answer your point, though. If you don't like me saying things like "hermeneutics," that's fine. I'll just translate it into regular-talk: you have as many unconscious prejudices as anybody else.

+++I went and found them out for myself...I didn't take the word of five out of work Jew fishermen I never met who were afraid of soap and water and died 2000 years ago...go get your own ideas and make your own mistakes and pay your own way and we could have a real discussion. Jesus was probably told the same things by Caiaphas I'm getting from you..."Gee Geezus...things have always been sort of bad...but there is good too...I just believe that things are the way Moses said they were and they ought to stay that way...you know Geezus...what makes you think you don't make mistakes"...and the rest of it.
>
>>>So, your bit is this (correct me if I'm wrong): Christianity is, at core, about the murder of an innocent man and the benefits that are given by accepting his death. Right? And this explains the only things that have ever happened in Christian history: the crusades, the inquisition and blah blah blah.
>>
>>***Do you really think the blah blahs settle the points raised?
>
>What points? Do you honestly expect me to answer for everything that every Christian in history has ever done? All the "blah" means is "crap that I don't have to deal with to make my point."

+++I'm nopt asking you about all history...it's very simple and it is the central point of your own friggin religion and of your own self as well so I should think you'd more than Blahs to say about it. Skip all the choirboy bullshit...your religion tells you to eat the body and drink the blood of a dead god made into a man so he could be killed and really feel the pain. And because pf that murder...insisted on by his own father...you will derive an unheard of benefit...get to live forever on a cloud somewhere.

You can't get the benefit though if you don't agree to partake of the spoils left after the corpse...you can't get the goods unless you eat and drink gore...symbollically of course..what do we take you people for, Savages?

You say it's a "gift" and why should you turn down a gift. I say a bloody corpse is no sort of a gift..and if there had been no bloody corpse there would have been no gift for you to receive...so one way or the other you accepted a blood sacrifice...okay so you didn't east the actual flesh and drink the red blood...but you agreed to BENEFIT from that murder.

We're not talking about a missed flight or a box of chocolates...but I'll tell you what...if the gift HAD been a gift of chocolates and those candies had been stolen...or lifted off the dead body of a holiday shopper...YOU would be guilty indeed of accepting stolen property..in other words a benefit derived illegally. Okay so in your religion you can benefit illegally...but what about immorally?

If a friend of your's named Mary bought you some flowers for your Urination but did it with money she made selling her body...would you accept the gift and say..."well what I am I supposed to do, poor dear...she worked so HARD for that money".

If someone kills someone else and brings you his shoes as gift...do you acept this kind of gift? Well why not...you sling Christ's body up and pray in front of it grateful for the gift that could have come your way in no other way bit through his murder. Even the secular arm relaizes that's a crime and you can't get off the hook by saying "But he WANTED to die...HONESTLY".

Jesus didn't scarifice a goddamn thing...he spoke out in ways his conscience told him to...like lots of people did before and since..people who KNEW damn well the fire was going to hurt...that it wasn't a temporary thing after which they'd rise up and get cleaned off and go rule the universe...and they all managed to go to their deaths for their beliefs...not a one of them "sacrificed" anything...they LIVED UP TO what they believed even at that awful price. Let's see you utter a peep about the murder of your own people by these Christians of yours.

No one who robs a bank "sacrifices" ten years in prison for it. That's the PUNISHMENT for breaking that law. It was against the law in Rome and its holdings to claim anyone was above the emperor...that there could be another god higher...they too tolerated other gods...but not above Caesar. By the way the Romans never killed a fraction of the number of Christians Christians killed for being Christians...but never mind "history".

Jesus broke a law...plain and simple and he paid the price millions of criminals...including those of Conscience, have paid...and they had no hope of being whisked to heaven...they all knew better. You want to paint it in these colors because it ties children in knots to think this poor fellow was led to slaughter FOR THEM....when he had no such notion at all.

And to top of your infamy...where do you get all this nonsense from? Indians...Assyrians...Babylonians? No...from them old Hebrews...about as uneducated and theiving and lying and fornicating a bunch of nit wits as ever existed.

Yes I make mistakes and I have lousy ideas...but I went out and found them and I tested them and I live by them and suffer the consequences. You'll say you do the same and you're partially correct...but these ideas of yours are old and musty and they are KILLING PEOPLE...those very ideas of yours...not some other ones. Christianity is the Necrophiliac's delight...not Islam...not even Judaism. It's you people who walk with death and sleep with it and pray for it and wind up killing so many for it...to speed us all along to the place you tell us REALLY counts.

Well, Christianity just got through making of Iraq a place people may prefer to die to get away from...is that about your general plan?

You are part of an institution and as nice and sweet a guy as you may be personally...at some point maturity dictates that you look around and see what you're associated with...and DON'T tell me you're going to "work from within".

You're religion...which demanded Jesus be killed for the benefits to flow, has become blood-crazy...as it's been many times in the past...and it's up to people who are what Jesus was in his day...NOT "working for change" within the Sanhedrin which you belong to...take it down.


>
>>>1) When I use the Bible or some other churchy thing to explain something, I'm doing so because they are authoritative voices in Christianity, not because I think they PROVE anything. They tell us what the whole thing MEANS; they don't work as evidence. OK?
>>
>>***Not "evidence"...but they tell what the whole thing MEANS?
>
>Yup.

+++Meaning needs no evidence? I suppose you just gave answers in class and never felt you had to back them up with anything?
>
>>***I got your beliefs from you but as you never examine them because they just ARE...they sound odd to you when delved into and played back sans the faith bullshit...
>
>No, it's just odd to have someone tell me what my faith means to me. You're not an evangelical, are you? "Farid Graham." Has a nice ring to it.

+++Wait a minute...you tell people what your faith means to you AND what it should mean to them....where's the difference? I'm telling you what I THINK of your faith and its impact on you...something I can see much better than you...you're a senile person who can't tell he's senile because he's senile. This crap has so wound itself through your entrials you can't speak or think straight and have to go live with other nut jobs for comfort.
>
>And what does it mean to play back beliefs "sans the faith?" What are beliefs without faith?
>
>>>A) Christians believe that Christ is God. Not "a god" or "a godly man," but God. The second Person of the Trinity - all three of whom are equally God; "The Word was in the beginning with God and the Word was God" and all that. This has been the belief of Christians since the beginning - the very first heresy, in fact (first Century) denied that Christ was a man.
>>
>>***Well that about settles it...you just told me youīre crazy but have every right to be crazy if you want to be...and besides youīve all been crazy for some time. I donīt care what sort of private insanity you suffer from...what you wonīt acknowledge is that while you may be innocent crazy...the majority of the people who believe as you do go further and kill people over it...
>
>THE MAJORITY! I don't know about you, but I've never met a single Christian - or anyone else, for that matter - who's killed another human being. Maybe I just have different friends than you do.

++++These are the games you play. You preach this crap to 100 kids and when 65 of them take it to its logical conclusion and start killing people...you know "sacrificing" them...you pull back in horror...yet it is these very Christian murderers who maintain you and keep you chugging away. On your own you can't even feed yourself...what are you talking about? You're about as sold to Corporate Christianity as can be and if you want to play the fool and tell me these aren't REAL Christians...well talk about your Blahs!
>
>Seriously, Farid. The way you carry on with your "the majority of people who believe as you do go further and kill people over it..." The majority of people who believe as I do - by FAR - are sweet, decent, humble people who find their faith inspiring. Oh, I forgot, "they ALL would've been like that anyway." Could be, I guess.

+++Give it a break. These sweet humble people stood by, like you...while 500,000 children were killed by the wrong kind of Christians...the ones that failed your class. No one said you could have stopped it...any more than Jesus stopped the Romans...but you could TRY!
>
>> and while itīs true they might kill them anayway...this god of yours allows them to wash their consciences again and again...while you pray.
>
>Christianity ain't the only religion that can be abused like that. What was the whole Babylonian New Year celebration about if not the victory of Marduk, god of Babylon, over the other gods of the other lands? Oh, never mind


+++Christianity is the one that starts and ends in murder. The rest had prophets and most of them died a natural death...no one celebrates murder the way you people do...just because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside doesn't mean it's anything but unhealthy and unsettling.
>
>>>B) I've told you before that I don't believe that goodness or justice were invented by Christianity - some people seem to, but not Catholics (remember all the Virtuous Pagans in Dante?)
>>
>>***Are there any virtuous pagan Assyrians you could have refernced or is self-loathing your thing as well?
>
>You don't get it. I'm referring to Dante to make the point that good old Catholic theology doesn't claim that Jesus invented telling the truth. Duh.
>
>Ok, enough with the beans. Here's the real stuff. I like what you've done with it:
>
>First, you say:
>
>>***You think self-love means taking the biggest slice for yourself...so you teach denying yourself the biggest and then ANY slice...and guess where all those slices go to? You people want to skip knowing yourselves...caring for yourselves...loving yourselves...but want to jump off a bridge yelling THIS WAY IS LOOOOOOOOVVVVEEEEEEE."
>
>Then:
>
>>***What can a person say to that? You might as well tell me youīre Napoleon. This is humility? God died for YOU?
>
>There you go again, telling me what the faith means to me: "self-sacrifice means not loving yourself;" "believing God died for you is arrogance."
>
>What can I say to THAT? What can I say except, "no, you're wrong." I DON'T think that self-sacrifice means I hate myself or avoid knowing myself. The whole POINT of self-sacrifice is to do it out of love for others, and self-love is assumed in loving others.

+++You don't know love till you feel it...and you're the first person you know. To even put it in the guise of a "sacrifice" shows you all you need to know. Adelita isn't "sacrifing" anything...she is living and loving AND supporting a priest such as you're going to be after your Urination. It isn't SACRIFICE when you love...but for you the effort must be so great...you FEEL the sacrifice. For the rest of us it's just plain loving...no sacrifce thank you.

I DON'T feel inflated or arrogant that Christ died for me (and you and everyone else). I feel humbled and awestruck - even dumbstruck, if it makes you happy.

+++Just dumb will do.


SORRY...have to run...I knopw that sounds like Andreas...but I do...knew I should have waited till I had the time...anyway, take a break...drink some blood...nosh on some human flesh and I'll be back.
>
>Way to totally miss the point. But then you're good at it.
>
>>***Jesus I wish on of them Greeks was here to see this. You MUST be joking...right? This is a gag...a trick to trip me up...right? Your urination and a postponed trip to Rome are anywhere near to the same thing in where your mind would have been had you not pissed it away for your urination?
>
>Whew. I'm exhausted just reading that last sentence. Oh, and you're missing the point again: OBVIOUSLY this situation isn't near the same thing as Christ's death. It's just an example to show that someone can accept a gift without becoming a bloodthirsty monster. Even more than that, actually: it shows how accepting even a tiny little gift that is given in love is a humbling and awesome thing. All the more so - infinitely - with Christ's gift.
>
>But you refuse to see that. You're standing on the altar with your nose against the Crucifix railing about how horrible a thing it is. You refuse to stand back and see it as it is - in the center of the church and the whole world. You see a dead guy. I see the God who created the world though he didn't have to, and who keeps it all going and beautiful though he doesn't have to, and who speaks to each conscience though he doesn't have to, and at the end, in the center of it all, who died for his creation out of pure and absolute and unrequired unasked-for love. But all you see is a dead guy. Suit yourself
>
>Sorry about that. I know already that you're not good with examples.
>
>>***Iīm pleased you can spell it. You have more bugaboos than anyone your age I ever met...
>
>Ah, the harsh reality of it all! I'm here arguing against hatreds you've harbored since well before I was born!
>
>>***You donīt kid me for minute...this kant you just delivered is supposed to show you arenīt afraid to come out of the closet, as a Christian and "proud of it too"!
>
>I'm here because you invited me and because I like arguing with you. I'm not sure what you expect from me - the faith hasn't changed since we last talked, nor has your horrendous misinterpretation of it. Whatever you expect from me, what you'll get is correction after correction of what you're getting wrong. You can think what you want about the meaning of the Crucifixion; if you want to know what it means to a Christian, that's what I'm here for.
>
>Your TV pal,
>
>Andy



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