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=> Re: Christianity 101

Re: Christianity 101
Posted by parhad (Guest) - Saturday, August 21 2004, 22:41:34 (CEST)
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>Then how do you explain the Church in Urmi? It's dated to the first century by all respected scholars and historians.

...the term church historian and church scholar, like church intellectual is misleading...you can be a scholar on all the fine points of Voodoo Island religions..that's one type of "scholar"...but it don't count anywhere else. These are your fabrications..eagerly supported by your church...what do you expect them to say? When we see Black Africans today still cheering on Jesus and even praying to a BLACK Mary and Jesus...well...run along with you.


The Magi came back and built a temple to Him which later became a Church of the East parish which still is functioning TODAY.


...calm down...they did no such thing...I see later down you criticize Tiglath's lack of empirical proof...you want to give us some BESIDES this Jewbook of yours? name a historian who is NOT an apologist for your Church who says the Maggi even existed! I mean the Three Kings nonsense...it's amazng what you'll swallow uncritically because it weas fed to you as a babe...like oatmeal mush, but get so all fired picky and demanding of when you're an adult...or should be one. Just one piece of evidence will do.
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>>.......They were the first Christians because they were forced to accept Christiantiy.
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>Forced by whom, Khizma? Roman soldiers who snuck across the Parthian Persian border and "raped" us into Christianity?

...the same way one brand of Christ was FORCED on people by the Romans...they already declared you Heretics way back when...had the Byzantines got to you first they would have killed or converted you..thank Muhammad your peculiar insanity survived.

...Chinese mothers were the foremost of those FORCING their daughters to have their feet broken, folded back and bound,,,the church of yours at NO time won anybody over...it defies all logic and what we know of the history of Evangelical pain-in-the-assism to think anyone dumped a religion as dear to them as anything any Jew came peddling.

...you have gotten these ideas of yours by reading here and fashioning responses out of whole cloth..when I wrote that Christianity was foreign to EVERYONE who ever came across it..that the first Christians HAD to be Jews...no Mesopotamians allowed, to even be Christian...you rehashed history, brought up the Maggi...dusted off that old prevert Abraham...and thought you had a winner because "you know history like nobody"...and could now proooves that Jews were really Assyrians all along and our entire history was leading up to crucifixtion...you are not a well man.

...Take your Jew and be happy...no need to trim and fold back our history to suit your crying need to make an Assyrian from a pig's ear.
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>>..And in order to work Christianity adopted the majority of the ancient Mesopotamian religous beliefs, practices, customs and holidays.
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>Nope, it is heir to those traditions. It didn't adopt anything. It is a fulfillment of the types, of the symbolism.

...right..and the guy who robbed the treasures from the Iraqi museum is the "heir" to those as well...simply because he coveted them all his life.
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>>..And as Christians we still use Tammuz trees during the birth of Jesus (Tammuz) during the Xmas holiday and we still celebrate the resurrection of Tammuz and Ishtar during the Easter holiday.
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>Only in the west did they do that. The Church of the East never did that in Mazraa, Khouni, and you know that.

...you consistently fail to keep on one track..if your private Christianity is THE Christianity, then it's a pretty sorry ass thing that has about driven us out of those homelands you say it originated in...if you are going to take what benefit you can from all the "wrong" kinds of Christians..without whose power and greed and brutality you would not have a place to hang your hat...then accept the fact that to the rest of the world and especially those looking down the barrels of your Protectors..you are ALL the same thing.

..The day you denounce the crimes against Christ and the rest of us of your Christian Protectors anywhere near to your denunciations of our own religions...will be the day that you might have some credance as any kind of "real" Christian...
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>>.......The Jews didn't treat Jesus like he was the ressurected God Tammuz using his symbol the Tammuz tree becasue they had seen it from the Mayans.
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>Exactly, so now you agree with me that the Jews are Akkadians and would be naturally expected to have preserved some of the very same traditions of their forefathers the Akkadians?
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>Tammuz was a type, in a way....a symbol of the coming Meshikha. Meshikha is the real thing which the symbolism, the shadow, of Tammuz foretold.

...and where is your empirical proof for this? Everything you were taught as a three year old needed no empirical anything. It made sense to you at three and it is just as sensible to you today...try to get you to think a little and all of a sudden you're demanding for Empirical Proof...and don't sem to mind at all that you're standing history and psychology and human behavior on their heads to make this silly point of yours that Ashur was paving the way for Christ..a Jew was really already an Assyrian...THIS makes perfect sense to you...THIS needs no empirical anything???
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>He is our resurrection and our life, our renewel as the earth is renewed during the springtime. But with a much deeper meaning than simple nature. It's that deeper meaning that's important, for it is what was missing from the simple symbolism of Tammuz.

...Our own Epic expressly tells us that this "hidden and deeper meaning" of yours and the Jews is a lot of nonsense perpetuated by people who HAD to find a meaning, ANY meaning to the miserable lives and shell shocked cities they were able to inhabit..places no one else wanted so they naturally said they conquered them!

...There is no deeper meaning..there doesn't have to be. The meaning of life is to live it here on earth with what you have at hand and can fashion using your wits as best you can to benefit your family and nation and world, that's all the "spirituality" any sane person needs..it is your Christian nations that are saddling their future generations with crushing debt and poisoned air...who've also gone to Iraq and "made it theirs" by "emulating" and "copying" our treasures and bank accounts...
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>When the people were babes, they were given milk which is easier to digest. As time went on, God revealed even more of His plan to us the Akkadians (Babylonians, Assyrians and Hebrews). His plan came to fruition with the literal fulfillment of those ancient shadows in Mesopotamia.

...empirical proof please...you don't want to be tainted by association with Aprim do you...who asked for just ONE document from Chaldeans proving who they are...who went to Syria for a year when I asked him for just ONE document that proved he was Assyrian...surely you can do better...where's the empirical proof?
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>It's not "copying" - it's "fulfillment." The Saviour of mankind is an Akkadian, the son of an Akkadian who is united to the Godhead in a mysterious incarnation for our salvation which Adam and Khawa (also in Beth-Nahrin) lost.

..."your honor I'd like to say I was not "copying" the victims signature when I wrote it on his check...which sheer emulation made me take for my own...I was "fullfilling" my desire to spend his cash. Can I go now"?
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>>......That's not the point. I'm showing you that Christianity has ripped off our ancient religion and resold it back to us with us as the big bad wolf.
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>No, it has not ripped off.

..."Your honor I never stole anything..it was the culmination of the long path I was on all my life to live in his house."
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>If it had ripped off, they would have erased the memory of Oraham coming from Mesopotamia. They give full credit to Mesopotamia - for they themselves are Mesopotamians just like you and I.

..it gives no "credit" to the United States to say Bush is an American. You consistently make old Abraham to be some kind of human marvel when he and his brood were a pack of preverts and degenerates...just what did he do anyway? Saying he is the father of this and that is like saying Bush is the father of Bush..as far as Iraqis and the Assyrians were concerned..that's hardly something to brag about.


They simply went to form a colony in Canaan - like your forefathers went to form a colony in Mazraa from Arbel. You do know us Mazarnaye are originally from Arbel, right?

...right...and America went to Iraq to rid the world of WMDs...be consistant at least.
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>>>(1) How did you arrive at the specific date when Meshikha was baptized by Yukhanan Mamdana?
>>
>>.....Mostly common sense. It would have occurred during the hotest time of the year. There were others being baptised on that day, not just Jesus which indicates that it was a summer religous festival being conducted by the Jews.
>>And since the practice had been going on for thousands of years before Christ it's easy to see that John the Baptist was following in the footsteps of our ancestors when he was splashing the waters of life onto Jesus(Tammuz) to ensure he would return and bring fertility to the land. This is a practice that we continue to celebrate to this very day. When I included it in the AAS calendar last year an Anglican priest brought a copy of the calendar and wanted to commend us for finally explaining the meaning of Noosardel, which means 'sprinkling water on the path of God (Tammuz).
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>Sorry Khouna, that's not scientific at all. If you make a claim you have to back it up with empirical scientific evidence. This is what Fred Aprim was criticizing your conclusions for. And I hate to say it because you're my relative, but I see it happening again here.

...I'd be careful about tossing this request around too much...you got some proof for anything?
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>You're exact words were that Yukhanan Mamdana baptized Eshoa on the exact date of the equinox....There is no evidence for this claim except as you say "common sense."

...and you have scientific evidence that Jesus ressurrected anybody? Please...I'd love to hear your science.
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>I'm sure you realize that if you were to write such an article in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, your article would be rejected outright by the editors. I need more evidence - how do you know the exact date of Meshikha's baptism?

..oh come ON...like any of the crap you've been spewing could make it into Mad Magazine!!!
>
>>.....Don't tell me your source on this is the Bible? Right?
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>And your source is what, Khizma? "Common sense" and "guesses" and "Estimates"?

...why will you not answer a question with an answer..why do you resort to another question all the time. In Assyria when an engineer wanted to know how high the temple could be built and asked his foreman how many bricks were on hand...that Assyrian didn't answer..."How many do you need"? If, on the famous other hand someone asked a Jew if bugs were really a part of a divine god's idea of a diet, he'd get as an answer, "How many do you need"?
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>I use written accounts, including the Bible, as historical evidence. This includes non-Christian sources like Josephus who lived at the time but was not a Christian.

...is that your criteria for "other" scientific writers and sources...that they "lived at the time"? And just how do you scientifically decide which of those writers and sources who lived back then you decide to believe. Be scientific now....

..you're trying to make science out of your personal superstitions...that's all you god-people do...once there was no need to pretend to use reason and facts and science to back up your wild assed claims...and you still don't have any sensible things to say where your miracles and beliefs are concerned..instead you've adopted this nasty trick of claiming YOUR idiocies were HISTORICALLY the same as and CAME from the Assyrians...as if that is true anywhere but in your head..and like if you can get Tiglath or anyone to accept this idiocy as OUR idiocy, you're going to "win them back".
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>>C'mon Paul what did you expect the Jewish writers to say? Every salesman states that their product is the best.
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>Are you actually implying that we categorically reject a written testimony simply because of the ethnic makeup of the authors?

...that's what YOU said...what he said is what he said..only again you ask him a question back...this is the cheapest of all your cheap tricks...we actually put out information and ask questions...questions you can' answer so you ask us one back...keep it up.
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>Yet, at the same time, we are to categorically accept anything your ancestors wrote simply because of their ethnic makeup, common sense, estimates, etc?
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>I'm sorry Khizma, I consider and weigh all the evidence and remain a stronger Christian than ever before because of it.

...yes you do...and thank the Lord Ashur you do.

Your ancestors for 2,000 years have not been stupid, either. Nor were they "raped" into Christ by "Roman" soldiers....they lived in Beth-Nahrin which at the time they converted to Christianity (from Judaism) the area was controlled by Persia, not Rome.


...you've made much of this point you think you made..when I made it for you,...in hopes of obscuring the rest..which you ignore. You have not said anything about the various myths you people have for just how you came to be Christian and WHY Assyrians would ever have bothered to...you steer clear of that alltogether except for recently you've gone back over the bible and taken the place of origin of Abraham as PROOF...all the empirical proof you need, that Assyrians were preparing for a Jewish Messiah all those centuries they were "lost"...you will acknowledge that your silly little church consigns all pagans to hell..is that any way to repay all the work we did preparing the way for YOU?

Persia could care less to force anyone into Christianity - they were Zoroastrians.
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>Your logic, and that of Parhad, does not make any sense.

...if we skip over, as you do, the three thousand other points you fail to even acknowledge...you are correct...in that one instance my Logic was off...but only slightly..I chose the wrong perps...but that doesn't clear the way for you to say we LEAPT into Christ..or, your latest version, that we were Christ all along and didn't know it.

...the day you make some effort to address ALL the other logical points and refute them as easily as you did this one..and not dodge behind, "you ridicule me"...or ask us questions in response instead of answering..the day you admit that an Assyrian isn't afraid of anything, least of all ridicule, is the day you can gloat a little...till then you're drowning while claiming you really wanted to touch bottom anyway.
>
>>>The imagery and typology you see in Mesopotamia which point to the coming of Meshikha, a Mesopotamian Semites who spoke our language and looked like us, is just that. It was revealed to our ancestors that these things would happen in order to prepare them for the revelation of Meshikha.
>>
>>.......Then how abput showing me one cuneiform tablet that specifically states that there shall come a Messiah and he shall make us renounce our pagan ways and we shall find the true path.
>
>We never rejected our faith, but we grew in it and it grew into Meshikhayutha. Our faith was a simple prototype before, and we saw it's fulfillment in our brothers the Jew's mission on this earth - to bring forth the Saviour of mankind - the Aramaic-speaking Akkadian known to the west as "Jesus".

...you again didn't answer the question...you who demand empirical proof..using your bombast against you Tiglath merely asked you for ONE document, in cuneiform...one that you COULD have uncovered all these years if it existed and you were mildly interested in anything Assyrian...ONE documented factual statement where this Jew business is put forth as the fulfillment of Ashur or anything in our belief structure.

..obviously he was no Savior of mankind...obviously many Jews if not most of them rejected him as another charlatan, of which there had been several..obviously great and good men and women lived decent lives with never a wish or fear or need to be saved...just as obviously this is YOUR fond belief...which you are welcome to...you are NOT welcome however to remain unchallenged when you stand everything upside down to "prove" what disturbs you so, especially when all you do is say "this is the way it is"...that Assyrians were the same as Jews..or the fullfillment of Jews or the ancestors of the Jews..the Jews killed their OWN Jews over this Messiah and yahwe crap....and we never did that...never even had a Messiah wish.

...If Abraham was in any way of us...he sure went to hell fast.
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>And the account was preserved in our own language and the Jews, our fellow Akkadian cousins, brought the word to us which we immediately recognized because of our exposure to the prototypes in ancient Mesopotamian typology.

...you bring my stolen wallet back to ke and say it's yours...I'm going to "immediately" recognize it too...still doesn't make it yours and neither am I going to thank you for preferring me to steal from when you found nothing worth stealing among your own family...that doesn't make you my "cousin"...I don't care that we speak the same language..you are a theif in ANY language...this latest apology for your theft, by claiming it was 'yours already" is flimsy at best...at most mildly clever...the only way you sustain it and yourself is by consistently and deftly dodging what you can't answer without doing permanent damage to your buttocks...while we take great pains to answer each and every point..and while your other Christians make a point of banning and deleting all debate and civil discussion...you bring those cheap tricks here by disdaining to reply to my posts on THIS forum...which makes no difference to me except that it's funny that I even have to "drag you over" at THIS forum..slap you around and show us all the magnificent spectacle of how a Jew came through the bowels of an Assyrian to not even be able to defend himself when he's HERE ALREADY.

...The boys have some excuse for ignoring these posts because they can't "see" them...but the spectacle you make in bringing over their deplorable behavior to an Assyrian site that welcomes anything you have to say and merely expects that you could handle whatever WE have to say...well, like I said...let you talk long enough and you undo yourself better than I need to.
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>That's the reason why Christianity was so readily adopted by our people, by your ancestors, who were not gullible idiots as Parhad is making them out to be.

...you too are only counting as "our" people those who chose Christ...I don't know how to break it to you..but by what the Islamic Empire achieved after conquering BetNahraion is about all the empirical proof we can have that the majority of Assyrians found a far more congenial home in Islam than in Christ...and just what empirical proof do you have that Assyrians became Christians...at ALL?
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>>Now if you can find just one cuneiform tablet that validates the plagarised and untrustworthy Jewish Bible then I will return to Christianity.
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>Haymanutha is in libboukh khayee, there's nothing I can do or say to place it there.

...we didn't ask you for faith...no "estimates" or appeals to "squishy" things..we want hard cold evidence..like Aprim and you want of Tiglath whenever he stumps you...Tiglath knows all about faith...anyone can see that...you are the one who introduced the provocative and wholly fanciful idea that the Assyrians were preparing the way for Christ and the Christian religion..since YOU brought it up it makes it your job to do more than ask us to have "faith" in whatever you tell us to...Tiglath asked you...one who "knows it better than you do"...for ONE DOCUMENT to back up this claim of yours..and true to form you did what you all do when you run out of bullshit or exhaust your hearer's ability to swallow one more shovelfull...you now say it is a matter of "faith"...where YOU of all people all along were asking for FACTS and Empirical SCIENCE!

...have you no shame? Or is making a fool of yourself for the Lord Jew okay?

Don't place that burden on me. I have nothing to do with it - it's between you and your Creator what will happen and what will enter your mind and your heart.

....that's all true...that isn't the issue though...the issue is that you introduced a completely unnacceptable and fanciful interpretation based on what you NEEDED to be true...the burden is INDEED on you therefore to back it up...as you were quick to jump on me and Tiglath for the slightest lapses in logic...if you are the one to claim a new phenomenom that stands everything the Human race knows on its head..it is indeed your responsibillity to provide some evidence...if I say ice cream melts at high temperatures, I don't have to provide empirical anything..that basic fact is well known by all, even by you. If I say that frozen ice cream can be used run an electric motor...you of all people would ask for some evidence....

When I say the Romans forced us into Christ..you come back with maps and books and things to prove me wrong...you present solid evidence etc...you do not say.."Farid, it is between you and your creator what you choose to say"...Hell no! At that point you sure do produce the EVIDENCE to trip me up, as you come armed as a scholar should be..with maps and books and the less religious THOSE books and maps the better for your argument...Tiglath has done the same...YOU posited a wholely new and as far as we're concerned, unproven and unprovable thesis...that Assyrians are Jews...that Christ was in essence Assyrian, that Assyrians were preparing the way for Christ, that Canaan was a Mesoptamian colony etc...how come YOU get to get away with it by citing "faith" and your "beliefs" only? Why do you shy away from providing evidence...where are the maps and books you used to prove me wrong? If they existed..if there was the SLIGHTEST chance they existed and any of this was even remotely true...don't you think, and don't you think we KNOW from your previous performance when it was a question of proving someone ELSE wrong..that you'd have whatever facts and empirical evidence out in a FLASH?

...I submitted to your evidence...why do you refuse to present any?
>
>>.......The truth shall set us free Paul.
>
>Yes, indeed it will. And it has set the world free - the Truth which emanated from Beth-Nahrin in all directions of the world....starting with the Akkadian Oraham (the "Father of all Believers") and coming right back to those who never left the hope in those types.

...if this is your idea of a religion of Love and the world is Free right now or ever was since this religion of yours took hold...then I know why you think a Jew is an Assyrian.
>
>-Paul



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