The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum

=> Re: Dear Lady

Re: Dear Lady
Posted by Dalale (Guest) - Tuesday, July 20 2004, 6:39:52 (CEST)
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I remember a comment I made to you in that conversation two years ago that if Abraham never left Ur or Mesopotamia, and his children were born, and their children, eventually Jesus would have been born in Mesopotamia as well.

...He may have been...but his father was Yahwe...and he was NEVER an Assyrian god or anywhere near to someone Assyrians would have respected. Jesus was a nice fellow...but nothing he brought into the world was new. There was loving kindness and hard work and sacrfice in BetNahrain when there was none among the Hebrews who were practicing human sacrifice. The thing that makes Jesus JESUS is this Messiah business and THAT is Hebrew and not Assyrian. No one needed saving more than Hebrews and no one was less capabale of doing it themsleves than Hebrews and no one was in dire need of a Heaven somewhere away from Jerusalem more than the Hebrews. The Gilgamesh Epic is OUR bible...a simple one with no blood and guts..it tells the tale of a kingly man, who yet lacks a woman`s wisdom... a noble man who starts out asking those inane questions the Jews did...but who comes to realize that loving his family and being the best man/king he can be during his time on earth IS Heaven....that seeking more than that is folly and arrogance...and with that philosophy and religion in mind the descendants of Gilgamesh were able to build half of civilization without bothering what came AFTER..while the Jews went on squatting in the dust, eating bugs and mapping out the UNIVERSE and ETERNITY and MORALITY while ripping open the wombs of each other`s wives to prove the point.

******* Yahweh means what? Is it a name? Or referring to someone's name they (the Jews) didn't know? The funniest thing i've heard Canadian Christians say about Muslims is, "They worship Allah while we worship God", it's such a silly statement because Allah means God in Arabic, it's another word, in another language, for the same 'being'. Allah is not another God other then "God"! Don't you think the same goes for Yahweh?

*******Jesus was more then a nice fellow Mr.. Parhad, he didn't marry a 13 year old 3aisha and forty or so other women as Mohammad did. If Jesus and the Messiah business were not Assyrian, why did the Assyrians/Astrologers follow the Star to his birthplace to honor him as a king?

*******There is more then the Gilgamesh Epic which could be our Bible, there is the Enuma Elish etc, but if you believe in these writings you have to admit that in these Cuneiform tablets there were God's mentioned not only one God. Gilgamesh himself was not just a "kingly man" or just a "noble man", he was a half "God"! I'm not saying that Assyrians worshipped more then one God, but more then one "being" or "God' was mentioned in Cuneiform text!


...The distingusihing feature of Christianity is not Christ`s lovliness, but this Jewish Messiah business..had Jesus been born in BetNahrain he would NOT have been a "Messiah"..he would have been one of any civilized people, men and women, who helped further the cause of human dececny...something you can see in the bible the Hebrews were sadly lacking...except when they rubbed elbows with us..for which Yahwe called them whores anyway. It is indeed a great tragedy Jesus wasn`t born among us..we would not have insisted he had to be butchered so we could benefit..we knew how to benefit without slitting the throats of our first born or getting someone to crucify them OR getting Americans to kill them...and we sure as hell wouldn`t have played at eating him and drinking his blood..those were not games in Assyria and they sure as hell were no part of any religion of ours...those were Hebrew games and they`ve made them yours.


********* Christianity is of a higher spiritual level then Islam, which is distinguishing. The Muslims also consider Jesus a prophet Mr.. Parhad, they just don't believe that he is the "son of God".

And I still don't think it's a Jew Religion, they took the Epics of Mesopotamia and converted them into some Jewish tales, but they are not originally Jewish, and by the way where are the Jews originally from anyway?

...Jesus was Jew..he said so himself and his father was a Jew god. Of course they stole from us..but that kind of flattery can only go so far. As to where the Jews were from, they only identified themselves as such when they returned from working in Egypt...because that "chosen" land couldn`t even support the few people living in it so they had to sell themselves into slavery periodically just to eat...everything about them stank of sheephit ad NOTHING of the sweet orchards along the Tigris

******* Judaism was a Religion not a Nationality when Abe got pissed off in Mesopotamia and took his camp gear and went off camping with his family looking for a "new" God. Only later did it become a Nationality. Jesus ancestors were Sumerians and the Jews were not from Egypt Mr.. Parhad, they were from Mesopotamia originally. Abrahams father Terah for instance was born in Nippur!

...As far as Abram goes..that kind of person and family values were not welcome in BetNahrain..he knew it and left to find the kind of people who DID sleep with their daughters, lose their wives in the desert and lie to the police about it and sacrifice their own sons. He was no loss to BetNahrain.

<And remember Mr. Parhad, the Jews don't worship Jesus,

..of course they do and did from the beginning. His disciples were all Jews as were his friends and teachers and god. In his lifetime he was nothing BUT a Jew...of a mildly different perspective and during his lifetime and for at least 100 years after you HAD to be a Jew in order to follow Christ at all...and it was for opening up membership in the new Jewish cult to gentiles that Paul nearly got killed. Christians were Jews from the outset...especially as far as Christ`s first and foremost followers...as was the first "pope". Not all Jews followed him but then not all Assyrian Christians follow the same Christ.

and from my point of view the problem is not what Jesus said, the problem is our interpretation of what he said, and of course the Church has been a problem.

..."we" have no idea what he said. Our knowledge of the man and the events comes from questionable sources. I still say it as an insult and a deep slander to tell us the Assyrians threw their culture away for a Jewish one...what more than likely happened is that the Romans imposed their new State religion on us as they did on everyone they came in contact with...as their descendants in Europe imposed Jesus on Afria and the New World..and we KNOW none of them willingly became Christian..why would they? They had more reson to remain faithful to the gods and cultures that gave birth to their people and grew from them and with them...converting to Jesus would be like converting to Martians who come here babbling about a god we never heard of...you know the Romans converted us through force as the Church worked hand in hand with later governments to FORCE people into a unfied, national, state-sponsored "religion"..that ain`t religion at ALL. What the indigenous Assyrians and Apaches and Hottentots and Aztecs had was a religion...Christianity was merely a tool for enforcing conformity in the various lands a Christian empire conquered..with no respect shown to the native gods and cultures which is a FAR CRY from the Tower of Babel and all that implies..we were INCLUSIVE, Christians became EXCLUSIVE..and that was pure Hebrew and then Roman all the way.

******* Just because some Western Christians used Christianity in which ever way they saw fit does not mean they understood what it truly means to be Christian, and it also does not mean that Assyrian Christians support their actions. Western Christians were using Christianity, it's like those people who steal, lie, and cheat, and do all sorts of things to people and then go to Church every Sunday all dressed up in their Sunday Mass Masks. This is not Christianity and this is not what Jesus meant for Christians to be like. When the Christian "Crusades" were going on, not only Muslims were killed but also Christian Middle Eastern people!

I asked you in that conversation 2 years ago and I ask again, why didn't the Assyrians create a Holy Book out of their Religious knowledge, so that Assyrians today could have followed it?

..there are over a million clay tablets being kept under lock and key 100 years after they were discovered. Had those tablets contained a SINGLE line that reafirmed the bible..you can bet they would have been shouted to the world. Even the Dead Sea Scroills went through the most tortuous and byzantine trail before being SNEAKED out to the public...why?

**********Here is what I read has been translated from Clay Tablets.
http://www.world-mysteries.com/pex_2.htm

" 450,000 years ago, On Nibiru, a distant member of our solar system, life faces slow extinction as the planet's atmosphere erodes. Deposed by Anu, the ruler Alalu escapes in a spaceship and finds refuge on Earth. He discovers that Earth has gold that can be used to protect Nibiru's atmosphere.

445,000
Led by Enki, a son of Anu, the Anunnaki land on Earth, establish Eridu -Earth Station I - for extracting gold from the waters of the Persian Gulf.

430,000
Earth's climate mellows. More Anunnaki arrive on Earth, among them Enki's half-sister Ninhursag, Chief Medical Officer.

416,000
As gold production falters, Anu arrives on Earth with Enlil, the heir apparent. It is decided to obtain the vital gold by mining it in southern Africa. Drawing lots, Enlil wins command of Earth Mission; Enki is relegated to Africa. On departing Earth, Anu is challenged by Alalu's grandson.

400,000
Seven functional settlements in southern Mesopotamia include a Spaceport (Sippar), Mission Control Center (Nippur), a metallurgical center (Shuruppak). The ores arrive by ships from Africa; the refined metal is sent aloft to orbiters manned by Igigi, then transferred to spaceships arriving periodically from Nibiru.

380,000
Gaining the support of the Igigi, Alalu's grandson attempts to seize mastery over Earth. The Enlilites win the War of the Olden Gods.

300,000
The Anunnaki toiling in the gold mines mutiny. Enki and Ninhursag create Primitive Workers through genetic manipulation of Ape woman; they take over the manual chores of the Anunnaki. Enlil raids the mines, brings the Primitive Workers to the Edin in Mesopotamia. Given the ability to procreate, Homo Sapiens begins to multiply.

200,000
Life on Earth regresses during a new glacial period.

100,000
Climate warms again. The Anunnaki (the biblical Nefilim), to Enlil's growing annoyance marry the daughters of Man.

75,000
The "accursation of Earth" - a new Ice Age-begins. Regressive types of Man roam the Earth . Cro-Magnon man survives.

49,000
Enki and Ninhursag elevate humans of Anunnaki parentage to rule in Shuruppak. Enlil, enraged. plots Mankind's demise.

13,000
Realizing that the passage of Nibiru in Earth's proximity will trigger an immense tidal wave, Enlil makes the Anunnaki swear to keep the impending calamity a secret from Mankind.
Events After the Deluge

11,000 B.C.
Enki breaks the oath, instructs Ziusudra/Noah to build a submersible ship. The Deluge sweeps over the Earth; the Anunnaki witness the total destruction from their orbiting spacecraft.
Enlil agrees to grant the remnants of Mankind implements and seeds; agriculture begins in the highlands. Enki domesticates animals.

10,500 B.C.
The descendants of Noah are allotted three regions. Ninurta, Enlil's foremost son, dams the mountains and drains the rivers to make Mesopotamia habitable; Enki reclaims the Nile valley. The Sinai peninsula is retained by the Anunnaki for a post-Diluvial spaceport; a control center is established on Mount Moriah (the future Jerusalem).

9,780 B.C.
Ra/Marduk, Enki's firstborn son, divides dominion over Egypt between Osiris and Seth.

9,330 B.C.
Seth seizes and dismembers Osiris, assumes sole rule over the Nile Valley.

8,970 B.C.
Horus avenges his father Osiris by launching the First Pyramid War. Seth escapes to Asia, seizes the Sinai peninsula and Canaan.

8,670 B.C.
Opposed to the resulting control of all the space facilities by Enki's descendants, the Enlilites launch the Second Pyramid War. The victorious Ninurta empties the Great Pyramid of its equipment.
Ninhursag, half-sister of Enki and Enlil, convenes peace conference. The division of Earth is reaffirmed. Rule over Egypt transferred from the Ra/Marduk dynasty to that of Thoth. Heliopolis built as a substitute Beacon City.

8,500 B.C.
The Anunnaki establish outposts at the gateway to the space facilities; Jericho is one of them.

7,400 B.C.
As the era of peace continues, the Anunnaki grant Mankind new advances; the Neolithic period begins. Demi-gods rule over Egypt.

3,800 B.C. Urban civilization begins in Sumer as the Anunnaki reestablish there the Olden Cities, beginning with Eridu and Nippur.
Anu comes to Earth for a pageantful visit. A new city, Uruk (Erech), is built in his honor; he makes its temple the abode of his beloved granddaughter Inanna/lshtar.
Kingship on Earth

3,760 Mankind granted kingship. Kish is first capital under the aegis of Ninurta. The alendar begun at Nippur. Civilization blossoms out in Sumer (the First Region).

3,450
Primacy in Sumer transferred to Nannar/Sin. Marduk proclaims Babylon "Gateway of the Gods." The "Tower of Babel" incident. The Anunnaki confuseMankind's languages.
His coup frustrated, Marduk/Ra returns to Egypt, deposes Thoth, seizes his younger brother Dumuzi who had betrothed Inanna. Dumuzi accidentally killed; Marduk imprisoned alive in the Great Pyramid. Freed through an emergency shaft, he goes into exile.

3,100-3, 350
years of chaos end with installation of first Egyptian Pharaoh in Memphis.Civilization comes to the Second Region.

2,900
Kingship in Sumer transferred to Erech. Inanna given dominion over the Third Region; the Indus Valley Civilization begins.

2,650
Sumer's royal capital shifts about. Kingship deteriorates. Enlil loses patience with the unruly human multitudes.

2,371
Inanna falls in love with Sharru-Kin (Sargon). He establishes new capital city. Agade (Akkad). Akkadian empire launched.

2,316
Aiming to rule the four regions, Sargon removes sacred soil from Babylon. The Marduk-Inanna conflict flares up again. It ends when Nergal, Marduk's brother, journeys from south Africa to Babylon and persuades Marduk to leave Mesopotamia.

2,291
Naram-Sin ascends the throne of Akkad. Directed by the warlike Inanna, he penetrates the Sinai peninsula, invades Egypt.

2,255
Inanna usurps the power in Mesopotamia; Naram-Sin defies Nippur. The Great Anunnaki obliterate Agade. Inanna escapes. Sumer and Akkad occupied by foreign troops loyal to Enlil and Ninurta.

2,220
Sumerian civilization rises to new heights under enlightened rulers of Lagash. Thoth helps its king Gudea build a ziggurat-temple for Ninurta.

2,193
Terah, Abraham's father, born in Nippur into a priestly-royal family.

2,180
Egypt divided; followers of Ra/Marduk retain the south; Pharaohs opposed to him gain the throne of lower Egypt.

2,130
As Enlil and Ninurta are increasingly away, central authority also deteriorates in Mesopotamia. Inanna's attempts to regain the kingship for Erech does not last.
The Fateful Century

B.C 2,123
Abraham born in Nippur.

2,113
Enlil entrusts the Lands of Shem to Nannar; Ur declared capital of new empire. Ur- Nammmu ascends throne, is named Protector of Nippur. A Nippurian priest-Terah, Abraham's father - comes to Ur to liaison with its royal court.

2,096
Ur-Nammu dies in battle. The people consider his untimely death a betrayal by Anu and Enlil. Terah departs with his family for Harran.

2,095
Shulgi ascends the throne of Ur, strengthens imperial ties. As empire thrives, Shulgi falls under charms of Inanna, becomes her lover. Grants Larsa to Elamites in exchange for serving as his Foreign Legion.

2,080
Theban princes loyal to Ra/Marduk press northward under Mentuhotep I. Nabu, Marduk's son, gains adherents for his father in Western Asia.

2,055
On Nannar's orders, Shulgi sends Elamite troops to suppress unrest in Canaanite cities. Elamites reach the gateway to the Sinai peninsula and its Spaceport.

2,048
Shulgi dies. Marduk moves to the Land of the Hittites. Abraham ordered to southern Canaan with an elite corps of cavalrymen.

2,047
Amar-Sin (the biblical Amraphel) becomes king of Ur. Abraham goes to Egypt, stays five years, then returns with more troops.

2,041
Guided by Inanna, Amar-Sin forms a coalition of Kings of the East, launches military expedition to Canaan and the Sinai. Its leader is the Elamite Khedor-la'omer. Abraham blocks the advance at the gateway to the Spaceport.

2,038
Shu-Sin replaces Amar-Sin on throne of Ur as the empire disintegrates.

2,029
Ibbi-Sin replaces Shu-Sin. The western provinces increasingly to Marduk.

2,024
Leading his followers, Marduk marches on Sumer, enthrones himself in Babylon. Fighting spreads to central Mesopotamia. Nippur's Holy of Holies is defiled. Enlil demands punishment for Marduk and Nabu; Enki opposes, but his son Nergal sides with Enlil.
As Nabu marshals his Canaanite followers to capture the Spaceport, the Great Anunnaki approve of the use of nuclear weapons. Nergal and Ninurta destroy the Spaceport and the errant Canaanite cities.

2,023
The winds carry the radioactive cloud to Sumer. People die a terrible death, animals perish, the water is poisoned, the soil becomes barren. Sumer and its great civilization lie prostrate. Its legacy passes to Abraham's seed as he begets -at age 100- a legitimate heir: Isaac."

...we DID leave our culture and religion in those tablets..yet all we ever hear is that they contain dull "business documents"...and we believe it. But even if nothing else survived, the Epic of Gilgamesh states our underlying beliefs very well...and they are to love and honor your family...build the walls well...be the best husband, man, father, son that you can, to listen to your mother/wife, the Divine Barmaid...to focus your energies on sanitation and hygiene and physical health here on earth...and to leave what you can`t know alone..it belongs to the eternal mysteries we haven`t the means or equipment to begin to figure out...to not lose sight of THIS world for hallucinations of the next..which is EXACTLY what the Hebrews couldn`t stand..for their just deserts in THIS life got them a goat turd "kingdom" on a rock in Jerusalem..while our focus on THIS life got us a Nineveh..and they never forgave us for it...and today they FINALLY got our boys to cheer its destruction..that`s Assyrian?


********** Why didn't the Iraqi Muslims descendants of the Ancient Assyrians help a little more in the preservation and translations of cuneiform tablets? Some of them I guess would rather take a stroll in Makka, no offence.

>
>All we`re saying is that it is preposterous for anyone to say Christians are the ONLY Assyrians allowed and then set rules and regulations that THEY will enforce to see if they`ll THINK about letting a Muslim or a Kurd join.
>
>********* I think if anyone from Mesopotamia considers himself Assyrian, it should be fine, regardless of Religion, but I have not heard many Iraqi-Muslims say such things, nor Kurdish-Muslims.

...and they haven`t seen us do much to secure the nation...though there are many Assyrian Christians living and working and fighting for their country. For us in America to impose standards..for you to say YOU haven`t been convinced...means nothing to them..why would it? Do you care what they say about you only being a Christian sect who, on arrival on Freedom`s Shore let us all see what you meant by "Assyrian" all those years in only building Churches? Where is the culture that MAKES an "ethnicity"? YOU are the ones screaming to the world ,"WE ARE CHRISTIANS"..and the few feelble attempts, the drawings of an Assyrian king..the plywood chariot and sequined gowns and balloons convince no one that we are REALLY PURE Assyrians!


********** Don't judge a book by it's cover! How do you know i'm one of those people? I don't even go to Church here because I feel that I don't learn anything at our Church. I read the Bible on my own and have a Church in my heart, and the Bible is not the only book I read.

**********Even if we are not "pure" Assyrians, we are the closest thing to the ancient Assyrians on earth today, if not in anything we actually do, then simply the way we look, the shape of our eyes and nose, the texture of our hair, I bet you can tell an Assyrian-Christian from a "Assyrian"-Muslim!

...Besides which Muslim Assyrians have a whole other empire to revel in...it is you who made Christian synonymous with Assyrian so that when Christ lost in BetNahrain you refused to recognize the "theft" of ASSYRIA..when our people turned to Islam in great enough numbers to take the religion and the CULTURE of BetNahrain to Spain and the New World..for which they`ve never been forgiven...the way you want them to be "Assyrian" practically means they have to renounce 1300 years of their history and achievements..and they won`t do that. Instead they incorpprate their Assyrian Assyrian roots into their later flowering as Muslim Assyrians..as you could see in the old Iraqi web page where the cross was as pronounced as the Crescent BOTH of which are Assyrian symbols..as well as the Lamasu...and they know and I know and you know that if you had an "Assyrian site"...you`d have a Lamasu without balls and lots of crosses...but NO Muslim symblos..and that says it all.

***********I don't think they should renounce 1300 years of history. They were Assyrians once upon a time, but today they "do nothing Assyrian"! Their music, if they listen to it, since many Muslims only listen to their Religious Muslim music since Music is against the teachings of Islam is hardly Assyrian Music, I never heard ancient Assyrians say "Allah ow Akbar" and continue this phrase for never ending hours! Your calling us Jews? Muslims are like modern day Puritans!

And about the Kurds, who said that we don't want to live in peace with them or that they cant "join", but where it concerns the Kurds, they are not the Indigenous people of the North of Iraq and it seems at times they don't want to let us "join" in a region which is historically our own.

...in the first place, no one there trusts Christians..so you`re screwed from the get go. If we are to talk to the world we have to use its definitions, not Hannas. As Tiglath pointed out, the United Nations, which is the recognized authority on displaced people etc, says that 400 years of continued occupancy makes people indigenous..it doesn`t matter if the land was empty when they moved in, it doesn`t matter how they moved, it doesn`t matter if there were original owners or ten warring factions or how much killing they had to do in order to saty...look at Israel..if they stay that long they are "indigenous". So at the least we should find another word to describe what you mean or people will discount our entire argument once they realize we make up definitions to suit ourselves.

******** I don't think people trust based on "religion" these days, it's seems to be all about the $$$! Whoppi the "United Nations", and who said the "United Nations" knows it all?

...You are living on stolen land here in America...which hasn`t even been "American" for the 400 years the world recognizes as the minimum time required under International Law to make its theft legitimate...and I doubt any Assyrian is going to give land back to any native and move out.

***** I live in Canada, and I know the lands were stolen from the Native Indians, and it's the most unfortuante thing that could happen to a Nation but at least Canada has given some rights to the Aboriginals.


...The Kurds are "indigenous" by all standards of civilized speech. If you mean they aren`t the original owners then say so. But that gets us nowhere because you or anyone else can`t prove original title. Finding Assyrian treasures in the ground doesn`t make the people living above the soil Assyrian because they "say so". The Aramaic language was spoken by lots of people and lots of people coming to BetNahrain 1000 years ago would have learned it and passed it down and you have no way of knowing if your family line extends back to the original people or merely 600 years ago and your Christian religion doesn`t prove YOU were there from the beginning of the Christian presence in BetNahrain. For us to make such a claim also brings ridicule on our heads.

What WE say doesn`t matter anywhere else...I don`t even buy the argument..and I`m hardly an enemy of my heritage...I AM against any idea we put out that only increases the divisions..as this latest war against BetNahrain will divide us and breed more hatred for generations to come..it has made things MUCH WORSE..not better.


******* So tell us of some ideas that can be put out which will unite rather then increase the divisions. Who are you afraid will be divided? Assyrians? Who is it that you want to Unite? I want the whole human race to be united, but I doubt my wish will come true in this lifetime.

Even if some Assyrians converted and became Kurds, the Kurds were a invading force in the North of Iraq. Nonetheless that doesn't mean we should not be able to live with them, but we also deserve to have our right's in this region.

...you get citizenship rights anywhere you behave the part of citizens. If they won`t allow you to run your village churches with madrassahs in the basement that teach impressionable minds sedition...they are simply doing what any country would do. You are allowed to worship Jesus all you want to.,..what you are NOT allowed to do is to use your religion as PROOF that you are the original owners of the land....that NO ONE would let you do. If the country is Iraq, or becomes Kurdistan or Tazmania and that name is recognized by the body of nations as a legitimate theft, sanctified by Time, as their`s all have been...then they get to set the rules for citizenship..as America does...and as no Apache who survived gets any Apache Rights..you will not get any Assyrian Rights..and that`s normal and expected and legal in every way..you may not LIKE it...but then who has?

*****Ok leave Christianity aside, do you think if we wanted to open Madrassahs which teach the Ancient Assyrian Culture and heritage, cuneiform etc, they will "allow" us to do so? I doubt it! I don't know about the Apache's but Native Indians in Canada have many Aboriginal rights, they don't pay any taxes, they can send their children to University for free and they have been given a region within Canada called Nunavut which is their own land, which they can run in whichever way they please.

>******** I don't think they are Arabizing Assyrian history, but most of them believe they are Arabs not Assyrians,

..they are Iraqi women...Arab women are in Arabia. You really MUST question, not reject outright, just QUESTION these dear beliefs you have that were taught to you by priests when you were a child..remember, we have no secular schools anywhere. This is shoddy history, in fact it`s hysteria..it isn`t history at all. No one in his or her right mind would think they are Assyrians..I sure as hell don`t and I never did. I believe I am descended in some ways from the people, ALL the people, of that region I was born in. To me that includes the glorious Islamic Empire centered in Baghdad that I am VERY proud of. Who do you think built Baghdad, on top of Babylon and the Alhambra and the great mosque of Cordoba....desert Arabs from tents and mud huts? Look at how we rob our children of such a magnificent legacy that came ON TOP of our Assyrian one...and make them hate what were their OWN great Muslims.


**************** Islam is not for me Mr. Parhad, I believe when Christianity is understood, it is of a higher spiritual level then Islam. I'm not saying that there aren't good thoughts or worthy quotes in the Koran, there are, but why would a Religion which believes it is "Halal" to marry three women appeal to me? Hinduism, Buddhism, Zen, and other Religions appeal to me more then Islam. I cannot believe in a man who had forty wives, one of them a child, and another the age of his mother, which Muslims have made a "God" by naming every second son Mohammad! Abubakar El Khalifa El Awil said to the people in Makka after the death of Mohammad, "In kuntum ta3biduna Mohmmad fa ina Mohamad kad mat, lakin in kintum ta3biduna Alah, fa ina Alah hayan la yamut." Mohammad died, he was just a man, but "God", "Allah", "Ashoor" does not die. (I know this last line probably made u angry but no one will ever be able to convince me that Allah and God are two sepperate "beings").

so the history of the Assyrians is also theirs, but some of them are confused and believe themselves to be "Arabs" because they are Muslim. I have heard of Iraqi Muslims calling themselves Assyrian but I've never met one.

...they all admit they are of Assyrian DESCENT...but that`s not the same thing as claiming to BE Assyrian. I doubt they think of themselves as Abbasids either...or Haroun al Rasids...they are IRAQI in the modern era, a People made up of one of the richest inheritances in the WORLD...who are at each others throats and will kill each other off completely for variants of a Jew religion..that is what we want to disucss and do something about.

*********The Assyrian-Christians are not at anyone's throats in Iraq, and we are not killing anyone. Not all Iraqi's are of Assyrian Descent (for example the people of the south). We are the descendant's of the Assyrians (maybe not pure Assyrians, but the closest thing to Ancient Assyrians in modern time), not just because we speak Aramaic, there are many reasons, one creative reason I have thought up is that WE ARE the people on the walls of the Ancient Assyrian Kings Palaces. When you look at Minoan Art you will find that the Cretans of today look like the people in the paintings and statues of the Ancient Minoans, why? Because they of course are the descendants of those Ancient people! They have the exact same features, white skin, dark hair, very thin waists exaggerated in Minoan Art, and you could pick out a Cretan today from looking at Minoan Paintings of thousands of years ago etc!

>
>When you Christians stop saying Muslims can`t be Assyrians...I^ll stop using your argument against you...we`re either in this thing together or no one gets the prize...and as far as Muslim Assyrians killing Christian Assyrians...that`s hardly a one way street and no proof at all that they can`t be the same people..in fact looking at the way Christians kill Christians over arcane and ridiculous details..it should come as NO surprise that Assyrian would kill Assyrian..over religion ESPECIALLY.
>
>****** Muslim's can say they are Assyrian.

...they don`t WANT to...there is no NEED to...The French don`t call themselves the people of Gaul any longer either. They are happy to be Iraqi with ALL that legacy..you are not pleased with because the country is Muslim..and Islam pushed Christ out and is from Arabia, the RELIGION I mean..and your silly priesthood concocted an argument from all that claiming Muslims in Iraq are all Arabs who should leave..even if that WERE true...why should they leave? According to the UN...NOT Hanna...if they are Arabs, they are now the indigenous people of Iraq, if not the original..but so what..what original people anywhere were given anything back..so that in the end all of this is LITERALLY about NOTHING.

********* I'm sure Assyrians are also happy to be Iraqi. Assyrians are not the ones mapping out a Kurdistan, they are happy living in a free, democratic (if there is such a thing as democracy) Iraq, as long as their lives are not threatened, and they can live and prosper.

The more Assyrians the merrier! About the Killing of Assyrians-Christians, since we are and were a minority in the region, we have been slaughtered a couple of times by "Muslims" even if we were once the same people, now we are considered as third class citizens in the Region, there are more Animal Right's in the world then Assyrian-Christian right's in Iraq.

..there is nothing unusual or exclusive to YOU in being slaughtered...happens all the time..so what? It`s Life..you take your hard knocks and you MOVE ON..you don`t enage in memeory fests where you ENSURE you`ll get slaughterd all over again. Don`t make our past our future..which is all this nationalism nonsense will achieve..as a minority we can`t DEMAND anything..period!

******So how did the Armenians "demand" something?

>
>And, finally...you cannot be Assyrian Christian..you can be Iraqi Christian or American Christian...or Israeli Muslim...but you don`t follow Ashur any longer...and you can`t be designated by TWO gods in your hyphenated names...there is no Assyrian nation today and if there was even a Triangle...the residents of it would not be of ONE religion..not if it`s a free democracy..so that to call yourselves Assyrian Christians...would mean Muslims in that triangle would be Muslim Assyrians and any Jews there would be Assyrian Jews..and there you have it...we`re right back where we started from...for any country to be called Assyria..is like calling a country Christlandia..it just doesn't`t work.
>
>****** I was born in Lebanon, so I cant be Iraqi-Christian even though my dad is Iraqi, I can be Assyrian-Christian since my parents are both Assyrian, not having a recognized homeland doesn't make it incorrect to call ourselves Assyrians.

..of course it does..you can`t call yourself an Albionist...there is no Albion any longer..it`s England..you are English. There is no Assyria anywhere...therefore you can`t claim any nationality from a nation that doesn`t exist...you can do as the Jews did when they had no nation..call yourselves by the name of your GOD...if you KEPT that god. But you didn`t..you have a new one...and to call yourselves by the names of TWO gods is silly.

*********And who decides whether there is a Assyria or not, or whether there are Assyrians? There is a Assyria living in the heart of every true Assyrian Omtanaya/Omthonoye and no one can take this part of Assyria away from them. I know your not a Bush fan, but he did recognize that Assyrians exost in Iraq today!

Just like muslims of Iraq can be Assyrian-Muslims. On the other hand this point must be made, the Assyrian-Muslims of Iraq have intermarried much more with foreign cultures, like Arabs etc, but the Assyrian-Christians have mostly intermarried with their own people which makes them closer genetically to the Ancient Assyrians then Assyrian-Muslims per say.

..no it doesn`t. You people merely bannish and think of as dead those who marry other people..like Peter Jassim disowned his sister from doing. The genes of Assyrians back then were ALREADY a hodge podge..there ARE no pure anythings on this planet...and the culture you call Assyrian..is like the religion you call Assyrian..it is a Jewish one..we lost our Assyrian everything ages ago...you people merely tack the name on and it`s become a very TACKY name...I see it for what it is..that`s why I set a much higher standard for what`s going to be presented to the world as "Assyrian"..because we`re too easy to dismiss as it is...but when we trot out our cardboard and tinsel Chariot parades...then we dimiss OURSELVES.

********* "There are not pure anything's on this planet" and I agree, but we are the closest people genetically to the Ancient Assyrians, and i'm sure there is a way to prove this scientifically! We don't live exactly as the Ancient Assyrians did, because it is impossible to live today as they did thousands of years ago, and it doesn't make any sense to expect our people to live as the Ancient Assyrians did. I understand that you have very high standards for what you want to present to the world as Assyrian, but Iraqi Muslims as you said, "don`t WANT to...there is no NEED to" call themselves Assyrians so why would they want to present anything Assyrian to the world regardless of it's high or low standered?

While you can doubt the jerks who put those winged dogs on the Civic Club roof and painted over the cracks that developed from cheap and shoddy worksmanship with GOLD paint, are "proud" Assyrians of ANY kind..let alone take any pride in the work they do...NO ONE can doubt the pride in heritage OR worksmanship that placed the Ashurbanipal where it is today...and I don`t believe for a minute I am an ASSYRIAN in any meaningful sense of the word...but by Ashur I am proud of his legacy and gift to me and the world through his people ages ago...and I can call to that feeling to create what can`t be laughed at by anyone else EXCEPT these boys of ours.

********I agree with you about the Ashurbanipal monument, and I hope to visit it one day and show it to my children (when I have them)!

...had someone dared put up a statue of Jesus as grotesque and insulting and gorss as those Winged Dogs there would have been a hue and outcry that someone was INSULTING Jesus...as I got blasted for my portrait of "Jesus The Jew". But no one has any deep feeling or committment to the ASSYRIAN Legacy...NOt the Christian one....all these boys piss on and crap on our Assyrian legacy...they engage in things as "Assyrians" they would NEVER tolerate for their Christian Faith. Christianity is alive and well..it has murdered millions of Jews and put the rest in a ghetto patrolled by Muslims who until the Christians came were the best friends the Jews EVER had...and today is at work on Islam, in between having murdered countless millions of its OWN Christians...Christianity is under no threat..it has huge financial reserves, a corp of dedicated worker bees..it is protected by governments and given tax incentives, it has media outelts of its own, resorts, owne vast amounts of property and on and on.


******** There are people who have deep feelings and commitment to the Assyrian Legacy, all over Europe, in America, and all over the world Mr. Parhad, it's unfair to make such a statement. The Christianity you are talking about is not Christianity, those are people who use Christianity to their advantage and are not true Christians.

In 2500 years there has been ONE Assyrian monument installed by ONE Asyrian who is PROUD to say he is not Christians..and for THAT...disregarding all I^ve done for the name of Ashur and the glory of his memeory and people..I`ve been called every name you can think of....by whom? Assyrians..or Christians?

******** Religion should be kept between man and God and if Christianity is not for you, and if your a Buddhist, or a Atheist I have no problem with you, as long as you are not hurting anyone. Some of our people are living in a modern stone age, that is why they cant see beyond the fact that you are not and don't want to be a Christian, on the other hand it's unfair for you to expect all Assyrians who are Christians to make the same choice you made. About the monument, what can I say Mr. Parhad.... it's very saddening....I just hope to see the Shumirum standing one day..and I for one will always remember you as being the Assyrian who brought Assyrian King's and Queens back to life, where we could actually see what they looked like. It was more then a dream come true for me to see the faces of Shalmanasar, Shumirum, Ashurbanipal, Inanna, Nimrod, Sargon II etc!

>
>*****Ashur is the "all seeing", is the all seeing not the Universal God?

..there is no univeral god..that`s insanity. People make gods to suit their need...Ashur suited our need to create an inclusive empire at that time because Humanity could not progress with highway robbers between each city...simple as that...and we needed to darw on all the resources and People of that region or we would have remained cloistered behind closed walls...inbreeding till we went insane...like the Hebrews went Mad.


****** You don't believe Ashur was a actual God? "People make gods to suit their need"? So then why are you so angry at Assyrians who you say left their God for a Jew God, since these "Gods" in your own words were made up to "suit" our "needs"? Who cares then, if it's Ashoor, Allah, Yahweh or Mickey Mouse?



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