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=> Re: Free Lamasu

Re: Free Lamasu
Posted by Shushan (Guest) - Thursday, August 26 2004, 4:00:35 (CEST)
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Hi Dean,

I know you were talking to Tiglath and I hope noone minds my put my 0.02c in. Please do not take it personal or as an attack... it is just me trying to understand when people post things, their reasoning and its affect on the devisiveness that I fear is destroying assyrians... and destroyed my attempts to connect to the community as a decendent of assyrians.

you wrote:
>All the pagan elements you mentioned should be banned. Anyone serious about Christianity (regardless of national origin and/or pride) should resist the use of pagan symbols.

x When you say pagan, I assume you are talking about old religions that worshipped more than one God. Now, I don't so don't go labelling me a pagan but I have to note something to you... all religions including christianity still incorporate "pagan" symbols. And be careful how you use your bias against other religious beliefs cause someone might come along and say that the trinity is a pagan belief, besides having been in many "pagan" religions including some assyrian religions which they saw as religion and we now see as mythology... for father, son and holy ghost are all seen as divine and last time I took out my calculator that adds up to 3 which someone wanting to demonize you like you are other pagan symbols, could call that inherently polytheistic, hence pagan. I personally feel we should be tolerant of all religions, even though I agree with noone of them 100%, but if you are going to say yours is the correct one, then becareful what you lab as good and bad, cause that is the problem with the world right now, cause it comes right back to you and the pingpong game of human bias and cruelty escalates.

you wrote:
>The fact that tammuz trees and ishtar eggs have become part of Christian celebrations is simply because pagan influence has been allowed to creep into the faith.

x I beg to differ that it creeped in. It was why the religion took hold, without it and the way it eased many "pagans" conversion, is the only reason you have it today. Besides religion without mythology is just an exercise in oppression, at least with mythology we can have some fun stories and holidays.

you wrote:
>Why should a Christian embrace his or her pagan past when that pagan past is incompatible with their present faith?

x Then were do you stop. Perhaps the virgin birth, the ressurection, baptism and all those stem from pagan beliefs since we had similar "stories" in our ancestors "pagan" beliefs. And I don't disagree with you to take pagan rituals out but becareful for you may undermine the aspects of your religion that makes people indoctrinable in it. I say if you want to change the religion, start your own.. why were only men thousands of years ago legite to start religions... go for it... give farid one more religion to entertain himself with.

you wrote:
>Those who don’t share the Christian faith or any faith for that matter are free to honor lamassu, ashur, shamash or any other element of their perceived national identity.

x I really don't take any of these arguments to heart but I wanted to point out how I think all these divisions in the "assyrian nation" are fueled... and there is a subtle maybe even subliminal implication in your statement above that nonchristians only have a "perceived" national identity, key word perceived... is it any more "percieved" than nonchristians. And who appointed you pope equivalent of assyrian orthodoxy that you can tell those of the christian fiath that they are not free to "honor" lamassu, ashur etc.. where honor to me just means appreciate its role in our ancestors lives which gives us life. And I don't think you would be foolishly implying that christian faith is the the only real and not merely perceived assyrian nationality, for that is truely devisive to those many assyrians who think differently than you in faith but still have pride and connection to assyrian national idenity. I just see it as ethnicity after all the crap I read on these forums, but I still care enough that I am trying to figure out why all this devisiveness and maybe if we all think about when we are judgementally telling people what they have to believe to be accepting in the community, we will have a bigger, more cohesive community with less opposition, and more of a real future in the modern democratic world.

x now I am not picking even though I guess it probably looks that way. As a christian whose faith is very untraditional who is tired of people telling me what I have to believe and not believe to be considered legit, I just want to point out who devisive these kinds of statements can be taken by some. Me, I am just trying to see all sides and try to figure out why there is so much devisiveness.

x Shushan



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