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=> Re: response to dear lady :part two

Re: response to dear lady :part two
Posted by Dalale (Guest) - Thursday, July 22 2004, 0:07:02 (CEST)
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If Assyrian-Christians are not the only descendants of the Ancient Assyrians, and there is no unequivocal genetic link, and Iraqi Muslims are as Assyrian as any Assyrian-Christians, then Iraqi Muslims and Christians are one people, who simple have different Religious Beliefs. Thus the Muslims should realize this actuality, and stop discriminating against Assyrian-Christians, defining us as a "minority" and giving us righ'ts based on our seven % (or so) population just because we are Christians! They should realize that we are entitled to all right's any Iraqi-Muslim is entitled to, and this should be incorporated into the new Iraqi Constitution! There should be equality before the law in Iraq regardless of Religious Beliefs. We don't consider Iraqi Muslims Arabs Mr. Parhad, it is they who have been considering themselves and labeling themselves "Arabs" for generations. Muslims have more concern for the Arab cities Makka and Madina then any Ancient Mesopotamian city, especially the cities of the Ancient Assyrians.

The comment you made about Assyrians supporting America is not completely true. We are not the ones who welcomed America with open arms into the Middle East, it was Muslims who welcomes America into the Middle East for their own purposes! For example the Saudi's and Kuwaiti governments! You should share some of your philosophies with Muslims, maybe then they will stick together, rather then backstab each other at every opportunity. And Assyrians have every right to also try to align themselves with possible allies.

There were no Assyrian people that supported sanctions on the Iraqi people. It was other Muslim countries who were afraid of Saddam who didn't care if thousands of Iraqi Muslim and Christian children died. Don't blame Assyrian-Christians for the actions of Muslim countries who cannot seem to support each other, but would rather allow foreign powers into their countries to defend one Muslim country from another Muslim country!

I have Muslim friends who reject Islam, and I have Christian friends who reject Christianity and I respect both their point of views! I am Christian because I choose to be Christian, but I am also Assyrian, and i'm sure Ashur and Jesus would have been great friends had they met, just like Gilgamesh and Enkidu, and i'm sure they would have no problem with Assyrians also being Christians! Tell us of what Jesus said that Ashur might have disagreed with enough to hate Jesus? Did Mesopotamia not crucify Ashur as the Romans and Jews Crucified Jesus? Why do you think Nineveh fell?

I wasn't brainwashed by some Church, and I have my own points of views on many issues regarding the Bible. For instance, I know that the stories in Genesis such as the Creation of the Universe/Mankind were taken from much earlier Sumerian Epics, and were not accurately translated. Some things I have read which I believe would most likely label me a nonbeliever, nontheless I could care less. The fact is, that God works in secret Mr. Parhad, and he did not reveal everything to the Jews in their Old Testament, and that is why the secret's of the Sumerian Epics were not all spilled, and even the Jew's could not figure out what exactly happened when the Universe was created and God created mankind and womankind in His image!

Concerning the Crusaders and their crimes against humanity, Western Christians who use Christianity however they see fit, the Roman Murderers who converted to Christianity, and Assyrians who pretend to be Christians, all these factors cannot change the fact that Jesus was against crime and never endorsed it in anyway. He said "If you live by the sword you will die by the sword" he didn't say go out and kill people for your own beliefs! Jesus's words, and the love for all of mankind in his teachings are timeless. Even if nothing he said was "new"! The Assyrian sculptures you made were not completely new ideas. Did not Assyrians build such sculptures or similar artifacts in the past? Yet even though you recreated them thousands of years later, they are still amazing works of art. The same goes for Jesus's teachings, they may not be "new", they probably were rather "old" teachings, but wisdom is wisdom 6000 BC and 2004 AD, and can be repeated at anytime in history.

There are good Americans, Italians, Assyrians, Iraqi individuals, and there are bad ones, just like in every culture and Religion, there are good and bad people. Unfortunately Christianity has been used by powerful individuals to suit their own goals, which is why it is so easy for you to find many fault's in Christian Nations. You are judging the act's of human beings who said they were "Christians". If you want to judge Christianity fairly then judge the words of Christ, which are in the New Testament, and find fault in them, because his teachings are what Christianity is all about. There are also people who were Christians who devoted their whole life to all of the Human Race regardless of Religion such as Mother Teresa and others! Name one Muslim who gave up their whole life to work for peace and tend to the sick as Mother Teresa did?

Is communism such a negative Political System on paper? Or did it become a negative system in the hands of Stalin and others? The philosophy of Communism is not the problem, it could have been heaven on earth in Russia, but in the hand's of human beings who crave power, money, and glory it can also be hell on earth, as Communism was for the Slavic Nations!

"Christianity the bloodiest religion the world has ever seen?"

****This is a false statement. There is no Religion that's primary principles and teachings are about killing, murder, and blood, and if there has been a "God" in history who promoted such actions then we can be sure it was a man pretending to be a God! Even Islam is not as bloody a Religion as it's followers have made it throughout the ages. The problem is not as much in our Religious texts as in how humans interpret these texts to suit themselves. I cannot imagine the Hindu God cheering the Hindu's on when they and the Sikhs were slaughtering each other in India, nor the Christian God cheering on the crusaders, nor does the Jewish God cheer on the Jews in killing Palestinians today, nor did the Muslim God cheer on the Kurds, Arabs, and Turks when they were slaughtering Assyrian-Christians, nor does any God cheer on the killing of Iraqi children regardless of Religion. God is against killing of any kind and if he is not, then he is not a God. It is people who kill, not God. God gave us freedom of choice, he does not try to control us, we are responsible for our own actions, we cannot make God take the responsibility for things which we have done in his name!

"Jews were NOT from Mesopotamia...they were in Judea eating bugs and scratching their behinds. Jesus is descended form the line of David who was decidedly not Sumerian but a minor Jewish thug and adulterer."

*********Jesus is from the line of David who is from the line of Abraham. Abrahams father was born in Iraq/Nippur, so Jesus ancestors were Sumerians. Just like Canadian people are originally of English, Scottish, Irish, French, Dutch, German descent. Jesus ancestors are of Mesopotamian descent!

".You cannot call a medicine "useful" or "miraculous" if it saves ten people and kills 1000 who take it. Christianity has brought nothing new into the world ...Assyrian parents were loving their children, obeying laws, worshipping gods, believing in a higher morality..as were others around the world LONG before Jesus came. There isnھt a SINGLE attribute you can give him or any saying of his that was new or different...except the Jewish parts about a Messiah...and no one else NEEDED a Messiah back then more than Jews..and later Assyrians who turned Christian"

********There is no doubt that Assyrians were of a highly sophisticated civilization which strived to reach higher levels morality. Jesus wasn't born in the time when the Assyrians were prospering and living the high life, he didn't take us away from Ashur. Jesus was born after the fall of Nineveh in 612 BC. How many generations are there from the time of the fall of Nineveh to the time of Jesus's birth Mr. Parhad? Enough to search for a "new" God?

"...what do you mean? They are supporting the actions of the United States..a Christian country." Not only Christian-Assyrians supported the United States, but also Muslims, the Kuwaiti government and so and so forth, and many other Muslim countries, most Christian-Assyrians supported the removal of Saddam and a better situation for all of the Iraqi people after his removal.

*********Christianity may have been forced by the Romans upon many peoples as Islam was forced on many peoples! Christianity was forced on the Natives by Europeans who came to the New World hungry for Gold, yet killed two unfortunate birds with one stone and "converted" the Natives to their version of Christianity. In my opinion the Natives Religion was closer to the spirit of Christianity then the European Christianity which they brought over and forced upon the Natives, who had never even heard of Christ.

Assyrians on the other hand converted to Christianity willingly and not by force. We went out into the world to spread Christ's teachings, our Church was one of the first Christian Churches founded, and we never converted anyone to Christianity by force, we even turned down some fellas such as Chingis khan and his crew who wanted to convert to Christianity but were not permitted since a Nestorian Patriarch declined their request! The Muslims of course accepted Chingis Khan with open arms, they must have had something in common!

"Had we kept faith with Ashur we would have been in a far different and far better place today"

**********When did we leave Ashur? Our Empire fell 612 BC, everything was downhill from then on, could it be that Ashur left us?

"Iraqi archaeologists are respected professionals in their field whoھve headed digs, published in journals around the world, written books and delivered lectures...they have ALWAYS revered and respected our common heritage."

**********I'm sure there are great Iraqi Archeologists and I know many Iraqi-Muslims who are great educated people who care a lot about their country. Assyrians should be given all the right's Iraqi-Muslims, Kurds, and Turkoman will be given in the new Constitution of Iraq. We are not third, forth or fifth class citizens! With these rights and equal opportunity for Christians in Iraq Assyrians will be encouraged to study in the field of Archeology, Assyriology etc, and they will also head digs, publish in journals around the world, write books and deliver lectures!

"...What was done in Chicago must produce a smile in Iraq when Muslims consider that once "free" to be Assyrian..the best you people could do, as ONE "Nation", was to STOP the installation of an Assyrian monument, going so far as to SUE them if they dared do such a thing..and this one jackass Assyrian is allowed to get away with saying that installing the monument a block and a half from the Oriental Institute is unacceptable to HIm because college kids play frisbee and picnic there...while you do nothing but build churches and sing the praises of Yahweh and his kid..what could PROVE to them better than anything they could have dreamed up that you are NOT Assyrians in any meaningful sense of the word...just Christians using Ashur where it suits you. "

**********In my opinion the Oriental Institute would be a great place to install the monument, since so many college student's from all over the world who attend the Institute will be able to see it! I have spoken once to Mr. Nimrod at the Convention which was held in Detroit. I was talking to him about Zachariah Sitchin's work which he seemed to be interested in. It's sad to hear that these issues haven't been resolved yet, and I hope any God who would like to help in this department will do so, quick!

******Unfortunately the Assyrian Nation is one of those Nations where everyone in the community want's to be King, and whenever they see people from their own Nation getting ahead they want to pull them down as quickly as possible. No wonder Ashur left us!

"you obviously donھt have Ashur in your heart...Assyrian was a religion before it was a nationalism or empire...if you remove an Assyrian from your heart and put a Jew there...what kind of an Assyrian does that make you?"

*******It's very difficult for me to choose Jesus over Ashur or Ashur over Jesus. Jesus was a descendant of Mesopotamia, he was not the foreign Alien you make him out to be. Nonetheless I am more familiar with Jesus's teachings then with Ashur's teachings. I have read a lot about the Ancient History of the Sumerians, Assyrians etc. I have unfortunately never come across a complete chapter which explains to me anything specific about what Ashur believed, as you know there are not many document's regarding Ashur's philosophy on life and religion!

"There is no Aryan=Type...there is no Assyrian=Type. This is discredited Fascist PURITY OF BLOOD. You just lead a sheltered life where your family were the only Assyrians you saw. We have Chaldeans who have green eyes and red hair and creamy skin you wonھt find in Ireland...we have pure blonde blue=eyed Assyrians we have Assyrians with marked Mongolian features..we have every kind of Assyrian there is on this planet in "Types"...there are Mexicans here in Mexico who look more Assyrian than I do. This is merely Racist thinking...there are no TYPES. We resemble LOTS of people and LOTS of people could have walked off those wall carvings."

************That's true, I only made this comment to see if I can get away with it!

"you have no way of knowing that Arab music wasnھt Assyrian originally...hell, we call Arab any Assyrian who SINGS an Arabic song. There are many words we think of as having come into Assyrian from Arabic...that were ours to begin with...you have no way of knowing how those instruments were used by our people originally...the instruments were the same and Iھm sure the music shared lots of similarities. How many times can you repeat Hail Mary full of grace? really..you must not make light of the ridiculous beliefs of others when yours can so easily be ridiculed."

*******Nice try Mr. Parhad, I wasn't speaking of Arabic Music such as the music Nathim Ghazali or Sa3dun Gabir play/sing! I even listen to Arabic Music! I was talking about Muslim music "Alah ow Akbar" of today, it is hardly similar to Ancient Assyrian music, since as you say Assyrians do "nothing" Assyrian, neither do Fanatic Muslims who you consider Assyrian while calling us merely Christians!

"wishing wonھt do. Calling off this war and paying indemnities and apologizing would be a good first step. We always had it in our power to teach and show by example...the American PEOPLE have not been hated yet..itھs their government that is despised increasingly. If we really had any good faith we could lead by example and prevail upon all the people of BetNahrain to follow a better path...realizing that Saddam was kept in power by America and used until no longer needed...it has been OUR meddling in their lives for the benefit of the same handful of Corps who savage us and ruin our environment and blight our lives back home that has caused the greatest damage. We are in no position to export democracy...we donھt know what it is any longer. The first step is to get out. If there has to be a bloodbath then we need to stay out of it...that goes for selling them weapons as well. You canھt control or shape a Peopleھs destiny..which is what we say we are doing, only by guiding them into our pockets. After the bloodbath, if it must be...they might be in a mood to compromise...and they might even avoid it altogether. No new countries need to be formed if people living everywhere will be respected.,...but that means the Western Powers have to stop playing their favorites game of divide and conquer..they have to stop meddling to give one side promises if theyھll do as theyھre told and then whispering something else into another faction, or the governmentھs ear. People think with a nation theyھll be in a better position to defend themselves and keep their cultures alive...they wonھt be any more secure as nations..it didnھt save Iraq...and if their cultures could be respected where they are, they might not chase the holy grail of nationhood..or triangularhood."

***********So you have even heard of the Holy Grail!? Have you heard that the pieces of Osiris which Seth cut up in Ancient times, and hid all over the world have almost all reincarnated throughout the Aquarian Age? One of them St. Francis of Assis, and all of them sharing the zodiac sign of Leo or another important planet in Leo! Well anyways these are just a few fairy tales I have read in my search for "truth".

"There is nothing in being Assyrian that demands a triangle..not when we have an entire country..."

**********There won't be an "entire" country when a Kurdish State is declared.

"Our boys donھt want mutual respect..they want BLOOD. To them any rights...including full equality, under a Kurdish state or government is anathema."

*********You and I, and everyone know that "FULL EQUALITY" under a Kurdish state is very unlikely because the Kurds are not the "FULL Equality" types. They are happily stealing lands which are not their own, where is the equality in such actions? They will declare a Kurdish State, import all the Kurds from all over the world, and we are supposed to live peacefully and happily with them right? Will you move to this Kurdistan? I doubt it! We are not the people who committed the crimes against the kurds in Halabcha! Why should we pay for crimes that Muslims committed against Muslims?

"the boys are mapping out a triangle...Iraq was mapped out by the British after being mapped out by the Turks..if the Kurds pull it off they are merely following accepted practice for International Mapping. You donھt have to like it or approve but why does that matter anywhere?"

********They can map out anything they want, a triangle, a rectangle, a hexagon! If the Kurds can map out a Kurdistan in land's which are not their own, why should they not map out a triangle in their own homeland, in the Ancient Heartland of Assyria?

"...it matters a great deal what god you believe in...it was all the world to the Assyrians...and we helped invent half the worldھs civilization with Ashurھs inspiration and guidance...where today we are beggars."

*********Ashur's words have been lost, no one knows what he thought or believed exactly. If you do know, please let us know what his philosophy on life, love, war, peace, brother/sisterhood, death and all of the other questions that mankind want's answered which are usually answered through their religion.



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