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=> They`ve added a "Jerry" at beth

They`ve added a "Jerry" at beth

Posted by parhad (Guest) - Tuesday, August 3 2004, 0:46:15 (CEST)
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Re: Sea, Sand and Sun
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Beth Suryoyo Assyrian (Othuroyo) Forum

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Written by Jerry on 02 Aug 2004 20:29:28:

As an answer to: Sayfo, Simele and Sanctions written by Paul Younan on 02 Aug 2004 17:53:37:

The above title has nothing to do with your topic, but its anotehr alliteration for the sake of making a statement and that is

...hell we get titles that have NOTHING to do with subjects..we get messages that have nothing to do with anything, we get claims from people who have no names, we even get kitchen appliances and natural geological formations writing to us...we can take it all!

"Allow me to differ!"

Some people look at those victims as Martyrs and other look at them as statistical crime victims, here are my thoughts.

One thing you are missing in your definition of Martyr is the persons own feeling towards that religion.

What I mean by that is, did he declare his relegion and willingly went to his death because of his declaration, or was it what the other side thought of his as, and killed him because of it, in other words if that victim was asked to denounce his religion and live, would he have denounced it, or that he wasn't given that chance. Personally I bet that 90% of those victims would have denounced their religion and declared acceptance of the new religion if they were given the chance to do so, and hence your definition of Martyr won't apply to them.

...I think you`re right. I think over the years people got tired of being Christian and being treated by their own people as traitors if they dared bathe or get an education or succeed AS IRAQIS...I think the church had to deal with these defections somehow and so kidnapped virgins and murdered but MARTYRED Christians became a part of Church mythology...which with enough repitition became Aprimfied into fact and was WAY too eagerly and very happily believed by the same dimwits who think they`re waking up after they die and living forever somewhere staring at they know not what.

...One way to tell is if the people who survived the recent bombings in church are dedicated enough to die for Jesus, will be to watch what happenes next Sunday...especially if the men show up.

Now let's take a look at those who were blown up to pieces yesterday, the blast came out of the blues and from a car packed with explosives, and hence they were never given a chance to declare that they want to stick to their religion or denounce it. My guess is that if they were captured and threathened with death if they don't denounce their religion then the outcome would have been different.

...you bet. If someone held a gun to my child`s head and said "denounce Jesus or your kid gets it"...I`d reply..."who"? Anything less than that makes me criminally negligent and should get me locked away and my children put somehwre where the people responsible for their welfare won`t be the ones to get them killed for a "religion".

...The Hebrews were given a way out by old yahwe...who said to lie when being coerced and threatened with death is perfectly okay with him because he knows you were forced to..and he wasn`t so wasteful of his chosen brats as to wish them to throw their lives away and those of their children, who would after all breed more Hebrews...for every insane person who came down the road looking for a little cheap thrills. The Church sees it differently...having thrown away Ashur we are now expected to throw OURSELVES away next...sort of makes in a way.

I am not judging their faith, I am simply discussing a third critical part of the definition that you missed, and that is did they go to their death willingly or unwillingly, and in the case of a car bomb, I beleive that the answer is unwillingly, and hence they are not martyrs.

...where the hell did you come from? Are you sure you didn`t come in here by mistake? What are you doing trying to elucidate anything? You`re supposed to curse someone`s parent and leave quickly.

Finally regardless if they were martyrs or not, I don't beleive that a martyr should be honored more than a victim of any kind, in fact there are some cases where martyrs acted in a stupid way (i.e. they asked for it; there is this case of one group of Christians who heard of a massacre being carried in a remote region, and they traveled to that region seeking death to go to heaven), avenging their death is a duty of every Assyrian. because Assyrian law states goes by an eye for an eye.

..indeed Christians made pests of themselves insisting they be martyred...as silly as any Muslim who wears a plastic key...they are ALL nuts when they take this stuff seriously.

...the best and most comprehensive definition of a martyr says that to SEEK it disqualifies you..as any number of unstable people could seek to leave a false impression of why they basically committed suicide...there is a new phenomenom in ghettos called "Suicide by Police" in which depressed and deranged people force the police to make victims of them..to satisfy a lifelong or chronic belief that they HAVE BEEN "victimized" as a way of avoiding the guilt and shame they feel at being terrific failures...which covers Aprim and Jassim to a T. And we have "Suicide by Jew"...where people who don`t realize that their church has stripped them of all vestiges of their true religion...feel lost and unnconected, unable to BE who they vaguely feel they are...and to cover over the shallowness of their lives...chose to glorify their exit.

Jerry

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