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Posted by parhad (Guest) - Wednesday, July 7 2004, 15:33:28 (CEST)
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a window has been opened there and all the hothouse plants are wilting due to an abundance of fresh air. It`s fun to watch Tiglath juggle Christians...but I have an especial fondness for Fred Aprim..he and I used to be close...toilet-close...so I want a shot at him as well...
it doesn`t really matter where I have to drag him to, the little nubbins...back alley, his own living room...out to the street...I just slap him around wherever he pops up...and he thought he`d be "safe".

Re: North of Iraq is NOT kurdistan as You Put it

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Beth Suryoyo Assyrian (Othuroyo) Forum

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Written by Fred Aprim on 07 Jul 2004 02:18:45:

As an answer to: Re: How we can be better than the Jews..... written by George on 06 Jul 2004 21:06:55:

Northern Iraq was NEVER known as kurdistan.

...North America was NEVER known as "America"...for ten thousand years it was called everything BUT America...that`s something so new, historically, that it`s barely yesterday. England used to be Albion...France was Gaul...there was no "Italy, no "Germany" no "Denmark, no "Spain"...there was never any Argentina there was no Uruguay...no Israel...there was No ANYTHING...Life is flux and change..you can no more stop it than you can a river and you can`t turn a river back either unless you dynamite it and even then it won`t run uphill..just stagnate and everything in it will die. There was no Iraq once either..and beofre there was an Assyria there was no Assyria. So?

Yes, Kurds lived in Assyria (northern Iraq); however, that does not make it kurdistan simply because kurds lived there.

...well it sure made "America" when they decided to stop being "The Colonies"...and the Americans used to live in only one, then three then thirteen..then they "moved"(it happens), killing and displacing all indigenous people in their path and re-naming the lands "America" till they reached something called "california" where you sit today on land stolen from the murdered indigenous people and they continued south into lands that were never "America" either...I don`t get the basis of your complaint...do you not like Reality? Are you objecting to history?

For the hundredth time, kurdistan (the historic lands of Kurds) is the region of mountains that extended from Hamadan to southern Armenia (mostly in Iran, Turkey, and a narrow strip around Sulaymania in modern Iraq (were part of Iran before).

...things change. It`s all Iraq now and has been for hundreds of years...and you want to make it a triangle..things change..only they never changed in the ways you propose..if the Kurds moved over 500 miles it`s nothing more than what the Eurpoeans did when they moved 7000 miles over to the East. I don`t get the basis of your complaint....

There are important points to consider:
1. Since northern Iraq was historically known as Assyria, with a well-known political system and well established empire,

...There was a Roman Empire..a Sassanid Empire...A Parthian Empire, a Scythian Empire, a Muslim Empire..there was a Britiah Empire...the USSR used to be much bigger...Russia was smaller...since Brazil is a new entity and South Africa is a baby, so what?...since Time began change and flux have been the order of the day...do you imagine Time to be as rigid and inflexible as you? If that had been the case there never would have been an Assyria in the first place..but since there was..and since it grew from a city, then two or three, into an empire taking over the lands of others who`d been there "first"...well, if you`re going to concede the "legitimate" validity of an "Assyria" existing at all...then by the same rules of the game that made Assyria...an Iraq was later made..and a Kurdistan can go where it damn well pleases, so long as it can get away with it...just as the Assyrian Empire did. is this really something you can`t grasp?

2. Since Assyrians lived in Assyria (north of Iraq) and continue to do so,

...that holds for everybody who still lives where they used to...Native Americans still live in California where you bought lands stolen from them. When do you think you`ll cut a traingle off YOUR back yard and return it?

2. Since there NEVER existed a political country called kurdistan during any period in history,
Therefore, you cannot say that north of Iraq is kurdistan.

Whether Kurds live in north of Iraq does not constitute calling it kurdistan SINCE Assyrians live there as well.

...of course it does..especially under a democratic rule of law..what you`re pissed about is that you can`t impose a Christian Tyranny over all the people there and justify it all by some airy fairy tale about how YOU are a pure Assyrian merely imposing Imperial Rule...in this day and age. This is the age of democracy, remember? And it matters little how America or Kurdistan or Spain stole their lands...all of whom have what you would call indigenous people in them...so what? If it`s a democracy you wanted..if that`s what all this was about, then you got one and no one anywhere expects people to give any land "back"..it sets a very poor precedent...do you really not understand that?

The majority of people in Mosul today are Arabs. Therefore, applying the Kurds' theories we should call Mosul (Assyria) as Arabistan and not kurdistan. The people of Mosul include Assyrians, Arabs, Turkomans, Yezidis, and Kurds, and since that region is an internationally recognized country called Iraq, the region should be referred to as northen Iraq.

...Look, you just make yourself dizzy and give us headaches with these games...it is not up to YOU what any region calls itself or does..there is no court of law set up for you to make these prooves. The United States already is there killing people..what more do you want? There is precendent for that, certainly for the United States to do it,...but there is no precedent anywhere for lands to be given back to anyone..if anything the existence of Israel prooooves the point...the land was not given back by Palestinians..it was seized by them and the theft made legal by the United Nations without a single Palestinian indigenous democractic voice heard...and Israel has gone on stealing land and holding onto to it and that constitues a COUNTRY..a new reality and the theft is legal by all rules of International Law...so what the fuck are you talking about?

If any other name should be applied to it for whatever reason, it should take the name that has most weight in history and that name is Assyria,

.-..why? Who says so besides you? What does a "weighty name" have to do with anything? Is your focus on "weighty names" so all important to you because that`s how you`ve sought to enoble a minor religious sect....?...by taking on the "weighty name" of Assyria?

...this is the con job of your church..to restore some weight to the name of Christ...YOUR version...you make these arguments about you and ONLY you being Assyrians so you can get a Christlandia...you are fooling NO ONE..the people who own land know your game and it will never fly anywhere outside your nursuries and you sure as hell haven`t convinced the British or Americans enough..which is all you`re trying to do..and we`re here to stop you from expanding your crimes in that blessed land under the name of "Assyria"..when it`s merely a Christian thing.

especialy when Assyrians continue to live there. Therefore, calling that province as Nineveh for now is acceptable (although it would have been most appropriate to be called the Province of Assyria).

..to whom? To you? You can`t tell the dog catcher in your town what to call himself and you`re going to tell Iraqis or Kurds what to do?

As far as living in peace among other groups and respect the rights of everybody, then I agree with you because that is the only way to bring peace and tranquility to the region.

...yes but not under YOUR rules. To make rules and be a Player you have to do more than sit on the stolen lands of indigenous people in California and DEMAND the return of stolen indigenous lands in Iraq, settle, not stolen, 1300 years ago...even if you could prove you had anything to do with those people..the people who "stole" the lands for Muhammad were merely following in the footsteps of those who stole the land for Jesus..what are you talking about?

Fred

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