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=> over your head

Posted by Parhad (Guest) - Thursday, September 16 2004, 16:43:53 (CEST)
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Paul Younan wrote:
>You have plenty of examples of Church of the West atrocities from Puritans to Germans, from the Crusades to Constantine, from the aborigines in Australia to the African continent. You seem to have that side of church history down pat.

...The Eastern Church coined the term "byzantine" for a reason. The exploits of just one of them Heraclitus are enough..that and the muder of every single person in Jerusalem when the Christians conquered the place..not to mention their treatment of Heretics...there are tons of books on the subject..you provide ONE factual instance where people threw their own cutlure away for Jesus..just ONE.
>
>Dean is asking you a very direct question. The Mesopotamian-based Church of the East, by the 11th century was the largest Christian denomination with 80 million people adhering to the Patriarch of Selucia-Ctesiphon, then resident in Baghdad. The Church of the East was spread from Cyprus to Japan.

..he is not asking a question about thas. I am saying it is absurd to claim people threw away their own faith and culturee ANYWHERE...can you understand ANYWHERE? That is my contention...for proof of that I can only cite the known record...where survivers lived to tell about it...and that includes in the East with the Romans who went on for another 1000 years doing their dirt after Rome was about washed up...The Byzantine emperors killed and killed and killed...we also know that for a fact. All you`re doing is claiming that because I don`t have the proof...and no one else does, of what happened in EVERY CORNER of the globe...THEREFORE we must toss out all the evidence we have for how your church DID conduct business in the vast majority of the cases..in favor of ASSUMING they MUST have acted kindly and nobly and with restraint in the cases where NO ONE knows EXACTLY what happened..that in those places a lone Jew did indeed show up...stand around...talk to a few people about a Jew...and they ALL dropped their shorts, cut their hair off..threw away their own gods and BEGGED to join up..that is absurd..or else YOU have to explain why in some parts of the world people JUMPED into Jesus and in the vast majority of the REST of the world..they had to be murdered into it.

For the last time...if YOU make a claim..YOU have to back it up...not tell me to go read a legal brief several thousand pages long because you KNOW I`ll find YOUR proof for YOU...this is the same nonsense Dean is pulling..I have an obligation to provide MY SIDE of MY story...if you have one..ANY kind of story...a guess...an assumption.. or HARD evidence..that will back up YOUR story...YOU have an obligation to provide it...NOT tell ME to go find it..or say that it`s "well known and out there"...go look for yourself.

Dean and now you, claim there is evidence and proof and hard history for the gentle and meek ways in which Christianity was spread in areas YOU claim to be the case...if this is at all true..YOU provide the facts..or give me YOUR assumptions and tell us what FACTS those assumptions are based upon...for weeks now you`ve both been saying..."oh come ON..we answered you already"..and still there is nothing provided..not even a GUESS...you just state that you KNOW it was "like this".
>
>Can you not name ONE incident like the ones mentioned above, but committed by the Church of the East? Name one people....no, one PERSON forcefully converted by the Mesopotamian Church of the East. You have plenty of countries to choose from: China, Japan, Mongolia, Turkestan, India, Malaysia, Persia, Mesopotamia, Arabia....I mean, we were all over the place.

...I told you all about it...if you claim it was done peacefully then YOU name the names and incidents and methods..and remember, your own church history provided by your church is not acceptable anywhere...but with you. If all you have is your manuscript`s version of "history"..forget it...we didn`t resist your nonsense to now accept your nonsense because the same Church said so.
>
>Stop with the Puritans and Germans, and name something WE did to force Christianity on ANYONE. Then, and only then, will you have answered Dean's challenge satisfactorily.

...I don`t have to name it...YOU have to name it..since you propose it...I have to back up what I say...NOT what you claim. I`ve said a hundred times that I have only an assumption..got that...a guess...BUT that it is based on the copious history of your Church EVERYWHERE...East, West and everywhere in between,,,All you`re doing is grabbing those corners wher neither YOU nor I know what happened...and saying I therefore can`t make an assumption THERE..that`s what assumptions are...they live or die depending on what they are based upon..so far you neither provided evidence yourselves for your claims..neither have you ventured to make a guess...and how could you? To be valid your assumption would have to be based on some facts from SOMEWHERE..and the ONLY facts there are all show that your church murdered people, wiped out entire cultures...ruined civilizations on entire CONTINENTS...so where can you even find a FACT to back up the assumption you don`t even DARE make?...that your Church played gentle and fair to "win" people away from their souls!
>
>-Paul

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The full topic:

Open Challenge #2.... Dean - Wednesday, September 15 2004, 20:19:21 (CEST)
- Re: Open Challenge #2.... Parhad - 09/15 21:13
  - Re: Open Challenge #2.... Dean - 09/16 02:34
    - Re: Open Challenge #2.... Parhad - 09/16 03:21
      - C'MON Parhad Paul Younan - 09/16 04:07
        Re: lets talk about your church leader(s) Tony - 09/16 04:24
        Re: lets talk about your church leader(s) Paul Younan - 09/16 04:52
        Re: lets talk about your church leader(s) Tony - 09/16 05:54
        Re: lets talk about your church leader(s) Parhad - 09/16 17:18
        
        Re: lets talk about your church leader(s) Parhad - 09/16 17:17
        
        over your head Parhad - 09/16 16:43
- Check and mate! Tiglath - 09/16 16:09
  - Not quite, Khizma Paul Younan - 09/16 16:18
    - Re: Not quite, Khizma Parhad - 09/16 17:50
      - Thank You Paul Younan - 09/16 23:18
  - Re: Check and mate! Dean - 09/16 21:10
    - Re: Check and mate! Parhad - 09/16 22:21
      - Your own words - THANK YOU! Paul Younan - 09/16 23:43
        Re: Your own words - THANK YOU! Parhad - 09/17 00:42
      - Re: Check and mate! Dean - 09/17 20:22
    - Re: Check and mate! Tiglath - 09/17 14:20
      - Re: Check and mate! Paul Younan - 09/17 19:38

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