The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum

=> Continuation

Continuation

Posted by Wonderer (Guest) - Wednesday, March 30 2005, 9:10:23 (CEST) from 65.94.180.46 - MTL-HSE-ppp189584.qc.sympatico.ca Canada - Windows XP - Internet Explorer Website: Website title:

..bullshit and bullshit...American Robber Barons are the ones out there stealing...what`s a Bedouin raid compared with Exxon...or Halliburton..and they are CHRISTIAN COMPANIES! >>> What do the american companies have to do with the million and more living in cemetaries in Egypt? ....you reveal your ignorance and plain thick-headedness every time you repeat your church. If you recall the West was meddling with the MidEast since Napoleon decided to attack Egypt and killed thousands and looted the place for no other reason than it was there..and that`s just in the modern era..in 1956 the British bombed the civilians of Port Said, Egypt killing hundreds of civillians, women and children too..and all because Nasser exercised his right to deny the Brits use of the canal until they paid up..the history of interference in the affairs of Muslim countries is legendary...under all these provocations Nasser tried to create a united Muslims front to defend the region from the United Christian front that`s been attacking them for the last 50 years..most recently murdering 600,000 Iraqi children and ruining their infrastructure and everything else...creating a defensive league is hardly the same as ganging up on those people to bring them war and steal their resources.... >>> First of all I don't repeat the Church and I have no idea what Church you're talking about,if the Church you used to frequent used to tell you stories about history that would be a first. >>>It's amazing how you pick and choose what you want to write about and you run away from looking at the truth when it's there.Yes,Napoleon had invaded Egypt which was only invaded before him by muslim armies when Egypt wasn't a muslim country as you claim but rather a Coptic land. >>> When Nasser got back the Suise Canal from the Brits and he kicked them out,he was supposed along with his team to bring about good changes to Egypt and give the people the things which they were deprived of during colonial rule.What ended up happening was that he started to take away properties of Christians "ta'meem" as he did in the Suise Canal,thus those people had no other way but to leave Egypt and they were the ones who were driving the economy in the country that was in the 1960's that's why most of the first generation Coptic Egyptians immigrants in the west and other countries belong to that foolish move which was made by Nasser and it caused Egypt to go far behind,consequently they are still suffering till today,and what happened he again through the one party policy created a two tier society,the rich who belonged to the party and the poor who had to pay for the corruption of those in power. ...as far as poverty in Egypt...I suppose you heard of the Great Depression when, without any outside interference, the United States plunged into hunger and poverty and homelessness...and even before that, in the twenties, scads of American veterans descended on Washington demanding the reinstatement of their promised benefits...and they were attacked and fired upon and several killed by the same United States Army that needed them once. And today there are thousands of Americans living in poverty...and whole familes sleeping under bridges and in cars and on sidewalks. You can blame them for their status, if you want to...but your attempt to smear everything in the Muslim world smacks of religious ignorance and fanaticism and not of knowledge. >>> Again you're assuming.I'm not attempting to smear any world,but rather you're the one doing that. ...still not true. Their religion started in Arabia and for the life of them Arab tribesmen still didn`t know what an "Arab" was..that was Europe`s designation...THEY insisted that people occupying a land mass have to have a nationality. And Muslims outside Arabia certainly never considered themselves Arabs..that`s why Pan-Arabism didn`t work... >>> In all their books they identify themselves as arabs,even in their Quran it is mentioned that it was written in an arabic tongue.If as you claim the arabs didn't identify themselves as such then how come they knew all about what being an arab meant? ...Homogenized smoothness is not in everyone`s upbringing. The mass media of the West, in America especially, has had great success turning people into Cheez-Whiz. Other people tend to be more individualistic...they all gather in Mecca...white and black and in between and come together under the religion in that sense..but they are fiercely loyal to their ethnic peculiarities...American Pop culture can overcome that, but it hasn`t yet. >>> They are just repeating what they used to do during pagan times what's so different there? ..they were not only teachers. You people like to take credit for being the scribes and transcribers of knowledge..you insist on limiting Assyrian involvement to some bookish nerds and martyrs...there is absolutely nothing in Christian doctrine that would appeal to an Assyrian..and don`t go telling me that kindness is Christian...I mean your crush on a Messiah to come save your sorry asses...and then this cannibalism and human sacrifice stuff..that`s pure Hebrew garbage..never a part of anything Assyrian. >>> Old stuff no need to answer this. ...you people forget that Assyrians did more than write books and "serve" other people. Assyrians also got up on horseback, wielded swords again and took their culture round the world. Christianity is a religion for slaves..for people convinced there is nothing for them on earth, who must look forward to another chance somwhere else..somewhere airy. Islam has a heaven of sorts too...but they don`t wait for a deliverer...you`re supposed to get there on your own...there is a lot more to appeal to Assyrians in Islam than there is in Christ..and DON`T tell me once again that kindness is Christian. >>> Your analysis of the Islamic heaven isn't completely correct because depending on the sect they do have different stands about it and how to get there, and yes they do believe of a sort of deliverer called Al-Mahdi which is only in Shiism and it's not tolerated by Sunnis.The kind of heaven they were promised might appeal to men but not to women because it's descriminating against them. >>> There's nothing in Islam that's appealing to Assyrians(whether they believe in Ashur,Jesus or follow other beliefs). ...Christian resignation and repudiation of the material things of this earth and Life are obviously contrary to what the Assyrians believed for thousands of years..if any Assyrians converted willingly it was only because they lost hope and faith in themselves...and became slaves..and you can see what Ashur did for them and what Christ did TO them...those who claim they are Assyrian Christians are beggars in the world today...vainly and noisily ranting about how they too are the CHOSEN...of a JEW GOD. And they`re SERIOUS too! This is not Assyrian...I don`t care how often they repeat it...they are merely trying to show that when they converted, they brought the greatest gift of all to the altar of the bloodiest mass murder the world has ever known...that they burned their Heritage on the altar of yahwe...therefore they are the BEST...because they sacrificed the MOST. That`s all being Assyrian means to them..it means how far they fell...not where they were. >>> Oh please,even in Islam they are told that they are the chosen ones,that their religion is the best and that they are the only ones who would go to heaven.Not only that they are referred to as slaves of Allah. >..it is absurd to claim you are an Assyrian. Simply absurd. There isn`t a shred of evidence for it anywhere...but indeed, you are allowed to believe anything you want to..there are over 400 Napoleons at any given time in mental hospitals and no one bothers arguing with them either...you are petted and indulged when you make these ridiculous claims..but no one takes you seriously...obviously. It`s a mean and stupid way to gain some recognition for your petty Christianity. >>> It's absurd that you want to tell people how to feel and how to think of themselves.If you're just a human being why then are you getting yourself so worked up for Assyria if you don't believe neither in its existence nor in any thing else related to it?Yet you do mention it.May be for you there's no shred of evidence since you have been blinded by your hatred for Christianity that you reflect it even on Assyria,when the two have nothing to do with each other. ...you`re the proof of it..you and others like you who, when you ask them to explain or express they`re "Assyrianism"...point to a JEW! >>> That's your opinion and you have no proof of any thing.I never mixed being Assyrian with being Christian. ...bullshit...that`s another lie of your`s...to you people religion IS ethnicity..everything you point to as "Assyrian" is in reality Christian...you`ve simply made a mountain, tribal, Christian culture, "Assyrian"...just like that. You have no idea what Assyrian is...none at all. >>> That's how you're explaining it.I don't know any thing about what Assyrian is,ok then you teach us instead of wasting time with your attacks and repetative phrases. ...go read something lese(else) besides manuscripts. I haven`t the time to unravel the mess in your head. >>> Hehehehe...You have time to repeat phrases day in and day out,at least write about some thing for a change.Who is reading manuscripts ??? Are you? ...you should try thinking before you write. Christians of the East at least had the OPTION to leave..and as we see...not all of them did by a long shot...several thousands have tried desperately to stay...even to this day...but thanks to YOU Christian evangelists...their situation has become intolerable..and STILL they don`t want to leave. >>> You should take your own advise(thinking before writing). OPTION? What option you're talking about?Who wanted to leave if they were not forced to through the "amicable" acts of your compatriots? ..When the Christian Crusaders took Jerusalem they killed every Muslim man, woman and child..and then, for fun, they rounded up all the Jews, locked them in their synagogue and burned them all to death..and you people were just warming up. You can say that all those people were also forced to¨"leave"...leave their lives and earth behind. >>> The above was done several hundred years before to the Christians of the Middle East as well.It's not right in any of the cases but people do ugly things when it comes to fanaticism. ..Contrast that to when Islam took back Jerusalem..the Patriarch, who ran for his life, was invited back to tour the city and the rights of ALL to worship there were guaranteed...and that was upheld until only recently and once again because of Christian interference...Muslims tried valiantly to live side by side and in peace with Jews and Christians..it was CHRISTIANS who killed all who were different and THEN turned their swords on each other..just as the Hebrews had done when THEY discovered your murderous god. And it is Christians who, as part of their Final Solution, have set Jews against Muslims...making blood enemies of people of two faiths who remained friendly and supportive of each other for centuries...centuries when Christians were killing, robbing and harrassing them BOTH. >>> How kind of you to mention what you like and leave out what doesn't appeal to you.The muslims knew that the Christians of the middle east weren't as those who came from the west and that's why they still offered them protection going by a letter which was written years before that by their Prophet calling upon muslims to protect Christians of the East and if muslims over the years continued to follow that letter there should have been no slaughtering of Christians at all.Today,just like you do when you cram all Christians into one box,muslims also are cramming all Christians into one box without differentiating that those Christians of the East have nothing to do with those who are claiming to be Christians in the West. As for the relation between the Jews and Muslims,there's no love lost there because animosity goes back to the days in Mecca when problems broke between the Jews who were there and the Messenger of Islam when they didn't recognize his teachings and the confrontations which took place between the two are many leading to the expulsion of any one who didn't believe in Islam from the Arabian Peninsula."There shall be no two religions". ..Christians have made themselves unwelcome in the MidEast...not all the ones who live there...but the few, like you..who buy all this nonsense and have taught and spread sedition..that the country BELONGS to someone other than the established government..doesn`t matter HOW that government was established..as America stole land from the indigenous people as well..as did everyone else...you can`t preach sedition ANYWHERE and yet you people think because "god is on your side", you should be allowed to. Catholics in America can`t agitate for their own part of the country..neither can Native Americans or Afro-Americans..neither can the Irish Cathiolics in Ireland nor the Basques of Spain...yet that is exactly what you "Assyrians" are doing down to this day..and that has played the biggest part in making Christianity suspect in the modern era...in that region. >>> Good so you admit that there was a land which belonged to an indigenous people and that land was stolen.When foreigners are occupying and doing what they want why shouldn't the Assyrians be at least equal in living in dignity? What do you suggest they do?Pay the tribute like good little Christians? You have to admit that there's something in the dhemmi mentality which grabs your attention because forever you're hinting indirectly to it. ...Christians, like the recent ones to leave...didn`t "leave". They were driven out because of what foreign Christians did to the country...just as in Turkey in the First World War. Think in equivalents, you dunce, and stop rooting for "your team". What would be the chances of getting a new mosque built in Manhattan today? What would Christian Americans do to Muslim Americans who called for and paid for and prayed for and then HELPED Muslim countries invade and occupy America? I have asked you these and more questions a dozen times..you and your breathren in ignorance and all you do is lightly skip over them to ask..."why do you hate Christ and goodness"? >>> I'm not with the policies which are followed in these countries against the Middle East.Now you tell me if the Muslims hate the western world so much why are they leaving the countries where they are the majority in and where the government is muslim and they are immigrating? Why are they leaving to the countries of the "Kuffar" ??? ...then tell us your EXACT contact with Muslims YOURSELF. YOU stop generalizing about Islam, Muslims, Arabs, Nasser and the rest of it. >>> You're the one generalizing about Christianity all the time,I'm merely answering your claims.I have had contact with Muslims growing up and those I knew were just like any other person whether Christian or Jew who are decent. ...this is the inside truth about the claim to be Assyrian. There is most definitely a consciousness of having an Assyrian Heritage...as there is of having had an Assyrian MUSLIM heritage...and you can certainly be of the Christian faith and be an Assyrian..but being Assyrian has nothing to do with what you SAY or how often you repeat things and it has NOTHING to do with religion..unless it be a belief in Ashur..and I do happen to believe in Ashur. You can tell a religion by what it inspires its followers to do...and so far there isn`t a damn thing inspirational in what you people represent...except your same old dismal and dreary Christianity that inspires you to be pious hypocrites and await a Jew Messiah..because you can`t wipe your own noses. >>> And the way that you're presenting represents Ashur and the Assyrian heritage??? ...It is unheard of, in the modern era, for Assyrians to have collectively spent close to a million dollars on sculpture or art of ANY kind..let alone Assyrian art. I built the first Assyrian, not Christian, public monument in 2500 years anywhere on earth...and you`re left having to tell me I must not be Assyrian...because I deny your nonsensical pandering and use of that noble name. Go use someone else. > I didn't deny you being Assyrian but you did,leaving Christianity aside. ..there were slaves and Black dhemmis in America only a short while ago...and people of color in America STILL face discrimination...and the indigenous people of America are STILL denied any rights to their lands..so what are you talking about? The people you are refering to who suffered discrimination in those countries did so because of the KIND of Christians they were..your kind, who believe they are entitled to some part of the country. My father was in the Iraqi army..it`s true he couldn`t rise beyond a certain rank...but then women STILL don`t receive equal pay for equal work in America and when my father was a major in the Army of Iraq...Black CHRISTIAN Americans cleaned latrines in the American military..and they fought long and hard to free themselves..they didn`t piss and moan about 1568 and 1931 the way you people do. >>> The kind of Christians they were??? You mentioned it yourself?Why wasn't your father allowed to rise beyond certain kind?He was a good man wasn't he and he didn't do any thing wrong so why was he denied higher ranks? Because he was a Christian and most probably if it was during the Baath regime because he didn't join the party.As for Tariq Aziz he was neither a Christian nor an Assyrian or a Catholic Chaldean for that matter.He accepted being called an Arab as he accepted the Baath ideology and he went from there. ...they were NEVER a majority. before Islam came there were plenty of pagans in the region..not everyone, in fact NO ONE, was converted to Christ. It is far more likely that whatever Christians came to the region were recently converted Jews...driven out by the Romans...you people never appealed to anyone anywhere..and it must hurt you, no doubt..so your church created the myth of the millions and millions of murdered or forcibly converted Christians to explain your small numbers. >>> Not true at all.The descriptions given by arab writers about the numbers of Churches and Monasteris in Bet Nahrain and the break down of the Dioceses clearly shows that the majority of the inhabitants at the time of Arab invasion were Christians. ...Left on your own..even tolerated as you were in China and Japan and India too...in all the intervening centuries, you have attracted no one...NO ONE. Your numbers there simply reflect what you would get if you put 300 rats in a cage and let them fuck each other for 1000 years...that`s all. Wherever you gained a nut job or two...you also lost one or two..and that`s your entire story in the East. Left to itself Christianity would have remained the minority religion it ALWAYS was...in fact, had the Byzantines had their way, you ALL would have been murdered or forcibly converted to Orthodoxy..or your orphanned children at least...you should be thankful to Muhammad for his armies saved you and allowed you to go on with your silly peculiarities because all they asked of you was that you obey the law and stop killing each other over Jesus...it was because of their indifference to your sects and their protection of the region from attack by Byzantium and the Eastern Roman Empire and its Imperial Church that you people were able to survive...but you attracted no one. >>> They were not forced to convert. ...The only Christianity that "worked"...that "won" new converts, was Western Christianity and their bloody record and history of how they accomplished this "miracle" is known well enough..and it is a record that would shame anyone but a Christian. And you are IN the West, appealing to these "wrong" Christians to also save your sorry asses. You can BE a murder or NEED and HIRE a murderer..the Law sees you as accomplices deserving of the same punishment for committing the crime TOGETHER ...You people in the East were ALWAYS the minority...you never won the hearts and minds of the majority of the pagans there...it was Islam that did that...far more than Christianity ever did...it was Islam that beat back the marauding Eastern Christians who would never have allowed you all to keep your fucking sects...so be grateful to Muhammad for that as well....you owe your "Assyriansm" to Islam for they protected you from being swallowed up in the Eastern Orthodox Church. >>> You're telling half the truth if any at all of how Islam settled in the East. ..like I said...at any given time there are 400 Napoleons and probably the same number of Cleopatras in mental hospitals and no one bothers arguing with them either..but for all of that, sane people know those inmates are nuts..just as we know you are. There isn`t a damn thing that is Assyrian about you..you are an offshoot of the Jewish faith and have no home to call your own...sound familiar? >>> You're not the one who decides who is Assyrian or not,nor are your napoleons,cleopatras and the rest of the gang.I'm not related to any thing Jewish either. ...there was no guilt in Iraq...there was no guilt among the Jews you people cooked in Poland. You are the rapists who think you can cover your crimes by saying "all people" do bad things. We all know the innocent suffer...we also know that for the last 100 years it is the Christian who have brought death and destruction top innocent people the world over...nothing you prattle about can change that..I don`t care how many of Nasser`s prograns didn`t work...and stop carrying on about being a dhimmie...it seems to be a permanent state of mind with you...not a role you once occupied. Get over yoursewlf...get up off your knees and go do something Assyrian for a change..whinning and cringing and pointing out the obvious was never Assyrian..we were builders and dooers and visionaries..the only vision you people have is of yourselves on a cloud some day. Airhead! >>> As you keep on repeating the same ideas over and over and you talk about not generalizing yet you're the one who does it with so much passion.Take a deep breath of fresh air it will do you good. --------------------- - BACK TO INDEX - REPLY - QUOTE - EDIT - DELETE -

The full topic: Continuation Wonderer - Wednesday, March 30 2005, 9:10:23 (CEST) Re: Continuation pancho - 03/31 04:25

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