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=> My Response to Peter Faris QC Blog

My Response to Peter Faris QC Blog
Posted by Tiglath (Guest) - Sunday, May 22 2005, 10:05:02 (CEST)
from 203.217.46.13 - 203-217-46-13.dyn.iinet.net.au Australia - Windows XP - Internet Explorer
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...Hello Peter, I hope you don't mind me debating some of the points you have raised.

1. War & Security

We are at war with terror and militant Islam in the Middle East. We are at war with Islamic terror in our homeland.
...We are actually not at war. This is not my opinion but the opinion of Brigadier Kelly, the director-general of future land warfare in the Australian army. In the April 27, 2005 Age article titled, 'Brigadier shocks and awes: there is no war on terrorism,' he clearly states that the so-called global war on terrorism does not exist in a speech that challenges the conventional political wisdom.
...What is actually happening is the corporate-hijacked US government needs to justify its exorbitant millitary spending by manufacturing conflicts and even invading soverign nations - in total violation of international and UN laws - if necessary.
....Vietnam was also a manufactured Clayton's war without end. The domino theory and the communist threat were marketed directly at us in South East Asia. Yet lose this 1970s Clayton's war we did. We lost and it costs us over 500 diggers with the Americans lost 58,000 soldiers and we helped destroy Vietnam and Cambodia in the process with losses over 4 million. And when all was said and done the domino theory was shown up for what it truly was an excellent marketing ploy used to scare us into supporting the US alliance.
.....The very same thing is playing itself out in Iraq. We will also lose this war because it's been designed that way.
...So we are neither in a war and we are definately not at war with Islamic terror in our homeland. Unless you can name one terrorist incident that has actually been committed in Australia since 9/11.

From time to time, circumstances will occur where it is necessary to use physical force on a captured person to obtain critical information.
Example - War
A militant Islamic group in Iraq is holding a hostage in an unknown location and is threatening to kill the hostage. A member of that group is captured but refuses to disclose the whereabouts of the hostage and the rest of the group. Torture is acceptable.

....Another Example - War : The US army in Iraq has indiscrimanently captured 10 men who have broken the curfew. Most have done nothing wrong and are locked up in Abu Ghraib. The guards then use torture to make them confess that they are members of the insurgency. Of the 10 men beaten and tortured by having their Korans flushed down the toilet and their sisters raped in front of their prison cells only one turns out to be a legitimate insurgent. The other 9 are released but after being treated in such a way somee of them quickly turn to the other insurgents and vow to liberate their nation from the US invaders.


Example – Security
An al Quada cell in New York has a working nuclear device which it is about to detonate. Millions will die. The authorities capture a member of the group. Torture is acceptable.

......The majority of illegal torture that the US has committed lately has been on suspects. Suspects that are innocent until proven guilty.
....And secondly if this "intelligence" has come from the same CIA that promised us there really are WMDs in Iraq, before illegaly invading, then you'll forgive me if I again state that torture is unacceptable.

2. Domestic
By this I mean torture in the circumstances of a criminal investigation.
Example
A psychopathic murder has buried a teenage girl alive and he is captured by the police. He refuses to say where she is. He taunts the police with his knowledge. Torture is acceptable to find the girl and to save her life. (This example is taken from the film Dirty Harry - in the film, Harry shot the man who then gave the information but the girl had already died).

........You have used a rare Hollywood scenario in an attempt to justify your support of torture. Yet even in your scenario the loss of one innocent girl through the non-use of torture will in the long run prevent more violence that would ultimately occur through the enforcement of this brutal policy by wrongly tortured suspects seeking revenge.

In my opinion, torture is morally acceptable in particular extreme circumstances. It would be quite wrong to refuse to use torture in all circumstances.

....In my opinion your opinion and torture are both morally reprehensible and we the Australian people will never support the eroding of our basic civil rights.



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