The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum

=> One Reverend...raw!

One Reverend...raw!
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Wednesday, March 30 2005, 4:56:11 (CEST)
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Rev. Dr. Peter Talia
Chicago, 1985

..okay..in the first place you have to face up to the fact that this guy believes in angels..he believes he`ll live on a cloud when he dies...in fact he believes whatever Jew fishermen said 2000 years ago...he didn`t have to be there..know them..ask questions...he was told this in his cradle and found it warm and comforting...the point is that we`re not dealing with any kind of intellect here..I don`t mean big words...Wellfed and Peter play that game as well...I mean at the core and basis of it this man is a child...or a fool..or both...now that we`ve established his age and status let`s see what the little tyke has to say...

“We consider ourselves no longer a nation, but a religious community.” Thus spoke the Jewish reformers assembled in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in 1885. The statement was no great innovation. Similar declaration had already been made by Jews in France, Poland, Holland, and Germany.

For a long time we Assyrians have been considered no longer a nation but a religious community, a minority group, with no national existence and with no national meaning. For twenty five hundred years we have lead this sort of existence, a meaningless existence, an absurd existence.

...I know where you`re going with this..and it`s someplace even more absurd.

Excluded primarily on the grounds of our faith and race from the societies upon whom we were economically dependent, we have every reason to feel like aliens even in territories where we had taken up residence long before the populations which were later to constitute their citizenry. Our frequent expulsions from one territory to another only confirm our feelings of our absurd and meaningless existence.

...join the crowd. Any number of native people the world over have been treated the same way...it`s the story of history...there is nothing special in it happening to you..and no one sets these things right...the world just rolls on and new realities are formed..get over it already.

Every alert Assyrian of this century somehow, on the basis of his own experience as well as his own observation of other groups and nations, realizes that his meaningless existence is a profound absurdity. No one has denied our existence, but we have not been given a meaningful existence.

..no one denies your existence as meaningless Christians...absolutely no one, outside of your circle, takes the other claim seriously. In the first place it doesn`t matter...Seminole Native Americans have a more recent tale of woe and they have a TREATY promising them Florida..think they`re going to get it?

..In the second place, it IS meaningless..I mean your claiming to be Assyrians. So what? "That`s nice"..people will think and move on...what do you suppose being "Assyrian" entitles you to? Pity? Someone else`s land? remember, every country today is on somebody else`s land...there`s nothing new or odd or requiring adjustment in that...look at Israel..no one gave them anything...the Europeans helped them TAKE it..illegally...and now the theft is official and recognized..Israel is a new country...made the same way all of them were...by force. No one was ever invited in.

...If anything being Assyrian should call from you a desire to BE Assyrian and do Assyrian things..but it doesn`t. You have merely made your peculiar Christian cutlure into an "Assyrian" one...everyone knows the ancients were not Assyrians. Had Jews switched over to Buddha en masse they`d hardly be considered Jews today..especially if their entire culture became a Buddhist one. Assyrians once ate kebobs...you are a Christian who eats kebobs..but it does not folow, therefore, that you must be an Assyrian...EVERYONE eats kebobs. Find something that ONLY ancient Assyrians did and did the most..and compare that to what you so-called Assyrians do TODAY...name any resemblance..that is unique to the ancients AND you and ONLY to the two of you.

To admit the existence of a people, yet denying its rights and privileges is indeed a preposterous procedure.


...That is not the case here. You have no right to special treatment. Native Americans, in so far as they obey the laws of America and not try to preach sedition, are accorded the same rights and privileges as non-Natives..but only recently...,not too long ago and for 400 years they too suffered all sorts of discrimination and abuse...so get over yourselves. Wherever in the MidEast you lived, you were accored the same rights as anyone else..within the law of the land...don`t forget Jim Crow in America and that it took an appeal to the Supreme Court to open public..that`s PUBLIC schools, to Black, Christian, Americans.

...You have no privileges that were denied you anywhere. Your village churches were bulldozed for good reason...for that is the seat and heart of this bullshit about you being owed the country...try that anywhere else in the world and see how fast your privileges are revoked...America killed Native Americans for complaining too loudly only three decades ago and would do it again today and any day in the future should they talk about their rights to any part of it.

It is like admitting the existence of sun but not denying light.

..no it`s not. You give no light anywhere.

It is like admitting the existence of water but denying H2O.


..come on..stop being cute.


Yet for twenty five hundred years the Assyrian community has endured the nightmare of privation of meaningful existence.

...you`re using a church definition of what is meaningful. For all those years families were born..people worked..they gathered up treasure..they lived, married and died...what you eman is that no one will GIVE you what you claim to be your right..of course they won`t..not then, now or EVER!

No wonder we have lost many things, partly and essentially our language, our customs, Culture, certain standards, our patterns of life. There is a sense of lost among us today because there is a loss of meaning. Someone has adequately characterized such existence by remarking: “Now there are times when a whole generation is caught…between two ages, two modes of life, with the consequence that it loses all power to understand itself and has no standards, no security, no simple acquiescence.”

...you must be quoting Peter or Wellfed..what do you measn by, "no simple acquiescence"? Acquiescing in WHAT? As far as your language goes...it isn`t lost. For all your compaints that in Iraq you were FORCED to give it up..I haven`t seen any great interest in keeping it..in the West where NO ONE forced you to anything...yet you strive to become Americanized as you did to become Christianized...even to the point of striving to blend in totally...so what...in Iraq the push was towards Iraqification..and you resented it..in America YOU push to become Americanized...so?

To attempt to identify the meaning of a nation or even a group or even an individual is the indispensable prerequisite for bringing order into chaotic existence. It would be unfortunate for a nation to live without a conventional name; it is disastrous for an ethnic minority to live without inner identity.

..how about the "disaster" then of giving up the religion that IDENTIFIED your name and culture and heritage? What about that? No one forced you to drop your own religion for a Jewish one..yet you RAN to do so..at least that`s your story. It seems to me that you yourselves started the habit of shopping around and cutting yourselves off from your roots...why are you crying about it now that it`s carried out to the logical conclusion...OBVIOUSLY being Assyrian was NOT that important to you.

A name we simply receive and cherish, love, and remember; national identity we must strive for, discover, acquire, enhance, and live by. Yet a name hardly we have maintained, and a national identity we have not been able to discover
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..because you are no nation..you aren`t even a People...you are not bound by anything...when you are sent or go wandering the world you have to tie a rope tighhtly round your group lest they wander away or get cut off...well, you people CUT yourselves off from the greatest unifying force there was for Assyrians...for all those centuries when there WAS meaning in being Assyrian. YOU made it meaningless...and everyone else knows that..and it`s why you are indulged but not taken seriously in this prepsoterous claim that you LOVE being Assyrians...you made yourselves Christians and cut yourselves off from full participation in Muslim countries...YOU did..where many other Christians joined in the larger society and did very well and were very happy..which made them traitors in your eyes...what a mess you people are!

- Iraqi Christians want Shiite for Nobel
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