The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum

=> Re: Continuation

Posted by pancho (Guest) - Thursday, March 31 2005, 4:25:46 (CEST)
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..before we get into it let`s not fail to point out again..that while you are a mouthpiece for what half the world believes, coddled and moddled in every newspaper and magazine across Christian countries...you still feel uncertain about revealing who you are...as if you were seceretly ashamed or feared something...while I, on the famous other hand, who scorns your pretensions and has NO outlet anywhere but this piddling thingie..who flies in the face of every Bubba out there...knowing how murderous you people are...put my name up front...as if I have nothing to be ashamed of..because I don`t. What`s your problem?
>
>>>> What do the american companies have to do with the million and more living in cemetaries in Egypt?

..the same thing millions who went up in smoke in just three years have to do with Jesus...and let`s not forget the 600,000 Iraqi children under five, also in the ground thanks to you people...not to mention the constant warfare you Christians have visited on this earth in just the last 100 years.

...Your figures are entirely made up and you know it....no one disputes the Holocaust or the dead Iraqi children..as no one disputes what was done to the entire population of HALF the world PLUS Africa in the name of your Jesus...the only place where your figures prove you right is where and when there were no independent witnesses...contrary to all human nature you people apparently did your worst when everyone was watching..and your BEST when no one was around...truly, a miracle.
>

>>>> First of all I don't repeat the Church

..of course you do...every word of your`s comes from some nit wit priest somewhere.

and I have no idea what Church you're talking about

..the church Jesus supposedly left behind when he patted Peter`s fanny and said, "Why Peter, you`re as hard as a rock"! Or something like that. Why..have you kids gone and made more than one church...for the ONLY Christ? Did he tell you to do that in his name as well...you tell me which church you are and I`ll tell you all about you...but the bottom line is that you believe you`ll live on a cloud..you believe what out of work Jew fishermen said 2000 years ago..you believe Jesus got back up and flew to heaven and you believe you will too...and you play at cannibalism and vampirism...did I leave anything out?

,if the Church you used to frequent used to tell you stories about history that would be a first.

...I never attended church..my parents gave me the option and sent me to one...I said no thank you..lunatics are not my cup of tea...in Baghdad the head of the American Jesuit College was sent for urgently by my aunt to probe my religious knowledge...he said, "how old was Jesus when he started his ministry"...I said, "don`t you know..and what`s it to me". He left. My aunt next tried Lutheranism on me..that`s where people who shouldn`t, get together to sing...I bowed out after one sitting...in Chicago later another aunt sent me to Catholic church for a day...they gave me a tin can with a photo of Jesus bleeding on it and told me to go door to door collecting money for "Him"...I knocked on enough doors to make what I needed to treat the guys to malteds..for, "verily they thirsted". Who the hell did they think they`d snared anyway?
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>>>>It's amazing how you pick and choose what you want to write about and you run away from looking at the truth when it's there.Yes,Napoleon had invaded Egypt which was only invaded before him by muslim armies when Egypt wasn't a muslim country as you claim but rather a Coptic land.

...and the Christians were NEVER in the majority anywhere...what does a Christian from Europe have to do with Muslims driving out Christians from their territory...you mean the Byzantines did NOT want to conquer Arabia?...and what do you think THEY would have done to the Coptic HERETICS? The Muslims allowed them..and YOU to live in peace whereas your Christian fellows would have burned you all and drank beer after. What are you doing invading Iraq NOW?
>
>>>> When Nasser got back the Suise Canal from the Brits and he kicked them out,he was supposed along with his team to bring about good changes to Egypt and give the people the things which they were deprived of during colonial rule.What ended up happening was that he started to take away properties of Christians "ta'meem" as he did in the Suise Canal,thus those people had no other way but to leave Egypt and they were the ones who were driving the economy in the country that was in the 1960's that's why most of the first generation Coptic Egyptians immigrants in the west and other countries belong to that foolish move which was made by Nasser and it caused Egypt to go far behind,consequently they are still suffering till today,and what happened he again through the one party policy created a two tier society,the rich who belonged to the party and the poor who had to pay for the corruption of those in power.

..they are suffering today the same way African countries and Latin countries suffered...because of Colonial interference...you skip over British interference in the region since the 1800s...Mubarak is a tyrant..but he is Americas tyrant..as Saddam was all those years he was supported by America.

...Christianity was a doomed religion in the MidEast the day the first Europeans, using Jesus as the excude, invaded and murdered civilians. From that day forward any and every Christian in the MidEast was suspect..as would be the case for Muslims in America if anything like that had happened to the West...as it is, after ONE attack, Christians justified themselves in going ape shit and attacking ANY Muslim anywhere...those were fifteen SAUDIS who attacked New York..not a Muslim among them..yet America went to war against Muslims everywhere..and every time there is a killing of an American soldier in Iraq, American Muslims get it in the shorts..as they have said often enough..that`s after ONE attack in 1400 years!

...The penchant of some Christians believing the Christian West will come "save them"...and their willingness to listen to sweet nothings blown up their arses has made ALL Christians suspect...naturally. And "save them" has meant nothing more than elevate Christ over Muhammad...there is nothing odd in that at all....if a coalition of Muslims or Muslim nations attacked America for 15 years or 1000 and stole and killed and robbed...you bet your sweet arse that Muslim Americans would want to leave and those who chose to stay would remain very very quiet about their religion and they would never NEVER ask for Pennsylvania so they could have a safe haven.

...And while you`re proclaiming your innocence and pointing out what the other guy did,..what EXACTLY did Jews do to you people to justify your campaign of 1500 years of vilification of them and incitements to violence by the Christians surrounding them, as you now feel like villifying Muslims, to lead your religion to murder 6 million of them...and what about all the other pogroms along the way..and while we`re at it...what led your church to make war on other Christians in Europe..making the ground run red with Christian blood..what had THOSE Christians done to you? What is WRONG with you people...why have you collectively killed more Christians and ruined more Christians and caused more exiles than ANYONE else...EVER??? Do you know something about yourselves that we don`t?
>
>...as far as poverty in Egypt...I suppose you heard of the Great Depression when, without any outside interference, the United States plunged into hunger and poverty and homelessness...and even before that, in the twenties, scads of American veterans descended on Washington demanding the reinstatement of their promised benefits...and they were attacked and fired upon and several killed by the same United States Army that needed them once. And today there are thousands of Americans living in poverty...and whole familes sleeping under bridges and in cars and on sidewalks. You can blame them for their status, if you want to...but your attempt to smear everything in the Muslim world smacks of religious ignorance and fanaticism and not of knowledge.
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>>>> Again you're assuming.I'm not attempting to smear any world,but rather you're the one doing that.

...every time you get caught you bat your eyes and say "who me"? You are casting all sorts of aspersions at Islam...so long as you lump all Muslims together the same can be done with Christians..you are ALL alike. I`m not of any of you...I could care less EXCEPT I can`t help but recognize the obvious, that it it is Christianity, not Judiasm or Islam, that has been waging holy war on the people of this planet for the last 100 years, putting out fatwahs and jihads left and right..and anywhere someone has tried to fight back you have redoubled your cruelties and barbarisms as if to say "how DARE you"!!!
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>>>> In all their books they identify themselves as arabs

..all what books...stop generalizing.

,even in their Quran it is mentioned that it was written in an arabic tongue.

....well what did you expect an Arab to speak? No one said the religion didn`t originate in Arabia...of course Arabic would be the language and it was the word delivered to the Arabs FIRST...as yahwe`s bloody message was first delivered to the Jews...so? Is every Christian in Canada a Jew because the religion came from Israel? Do Christians NOT identify themselves as part of the Christian people of the world? Cannot a Muslim be part of Muslim people of the earth? English is the common language of Britain, America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand...yet they are not all English PEOPLE. They are connected by a common LANGUAGE. But they all admit that their heritage is an Anglo one..even if their religion is a Semitic one...so what. The Muslims are more centralized...which shows they didn`t go half way round the world murdering people...their religion AND language is Semitic...not spread all over the place.

If as you claim the arabs didn't identify themselves as such then how come they knew all about what being an arab meant?

...you`re speaking in circles as well as tongues. Try to mean something when you write...They didn`t know what it meant...Lawrence was there, trying desperately to forge Arab unity..a sense of them as being one people...it couldn`t be done and still can`t.

>>>> They are just repeating what they used to do during pagan times what's so different there?

..nothing wrong with it..just as you stole Christmas and Easter from us pagans..and a whole lot more...so?
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>
>..they were not only teachers. You people like to take credit for being the scribes and transcribers of knowledge..you insist on limiting Assyrian involvement to some bookish nerds and martyrs...there is absolutely nothing in Christian doctrine that would appeal to an Assyrian..and don`t go telling me that kindness is Christian...I mean your crush on a Messiah to come save your sorry asses...and then this cannibalism and human sacrifice stuff..that`s pure Hebrew garbage..never a part of anything Assyrian.
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>>>> Old stuff no need to answer this.

...so is your answer..it`s the same old answer I get when none of you can answer.
>
>...you people forget that Assyrians did more than write books and "serve" other people. Assyrians also got up on horseback, wielded swords again and took their culture round the world. Christianity is a religion for slaves..for people convinced there is nothing for them on earth, who must look forward to another chance somwhere else..somewhere airy. Islam has a heaven of sorts too...but they don`t wait for a deliverer...you`re supposed to get there on your own...there is a lot more to appeal to Assyrians in Islam than there is in Christ..and DON`T tell me once again that kindness is Christian.
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>>>> Your analysis of the Islamic heaven isn't completely correct because depending on the sect they do have different stands about it and how to get there, and yes they do believe of a sort of deliverer called Al-Mahdi which is only in Shiism and it's not tolerated by Sunnis.

..Al Mahdi is the legendary mising Iman...he will come to save them on THIS Earth...as for 1000 years Jesus, the Jew Messiah, was supposed to come and make his kingdom on THIS earth..it was only after repeated failures to show up that the Board of Directors of the Roman Imperial Religion Inc. decided they had best make the promised kingdom up THERE..on a cloud. So?

The kind of heaven they were promised might appeal to men but not to women because it's descriminating against them.

...their heaven, like yours and all the other hoopla, was meant to appeal to simple, unlettered and superstitious people. While there are some silly, though tangible benefits to be had by SOMEONE in their heaven..the best you can do is to promise people will look into the face of god...FOREVER! That and this latest strain which has white trash convinced they`re going to re-form on a cloud with all their friends and neighbors and party forever...the details of hell are easy to fill in...because anything..I mean ANYTHING done for an eternity BECOMES Hell. Hell could best be typified by the dungeons of the most Holy Inquisition..where children were put to the torture in order to convince their parents...sort of an early version of what you did to Iraqi children..to soften up their parents...take something like ripping off fingernails...that`s painful for one minute...for one second..for an hour and certainly for twenty years it would be awful...multiply that by eternity and Hell is easy to recognize.

...But what of YOUR heaven? The reason you can`t figure out what to put in it is because anything..absolutely anything you could think of, no matter how delightful to your imagination here on earth...the best vacation in the world..the longest orgasm..the biggest car..anything at all, would become HELL if done forever. Name a single thing you`d want to do and ONLY do for twenty years..and multiply that by eternity...is that NOT Hell?

..The big joke is that eternity ITSELF is hell! Doesn`t matter whose face you fill it with.
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>>>> There's nothing in Islam that's appealing to Assyrians(whether they believe in Ashur,Jesus or follow other beliefs).

..of course there was..Islam was far closer to their own martial ideal...with Christianity they were expected to renounce this earth...eschew wealth and accomplishments, wear sackloth and ashes, be meek and if they would REALLY please, go live in a cave or on a pillar...they made poor citizens as Christians for they refused to bother with the silly things of this earth..like civic duty and would drop everything and periodically run out into the dessert because someone said Jesus was spotted...there is nothing in this...especially the Jew Messiah story, that would appeal to Assyrians...they had NO need of a Messiah...the Jews definitely did! The Assyrians had hosts right here..they didn`t need them in heaven...the entire Messiah concept is for people who can`t manage to build a toilet by themselves but need divine intervention...that`s them Hebrews exactly. The Assyrians were obviously capable of much much more...but they got tired..hell we couldn`t do it ALL for eveybody!

..Islam was another call to arms..it was familiar territory...as you can see by what Islam built, both in magnificent Baghdad, the greatest city of its day...as well as in Spain...this was not done by dessert Arabs alone, or by Christian SCRIBES! Assyrians grabbed swords again...got up on horseback again, designed buildings and canals and led armies again and revived their glorious achievements and took them across Africa all the way to Europe and beyond to the New World with the Spaniards..with whose blood they mingled for 700 years...creating the greatest cities of Europe and enlightening those backward oafs once they got the Church off their backs.
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>...Christian resignation and repudiation of the material things of this earth and Life are obviously contrary to what the Assyrians believed for thousands of years..if any Assyrians converted willingly it was only because they lost hope and faith in themselves...and became slaves..and you can see what Ashur did for them and what Christ did TO them...those who claim they are Assyrian Christians are beggars in the world today...vainly and noisily ranting about how they too are the CHOSEN...of a JEW GOD. And they`re SERIOUS too! This is not Assyrian...I don`t care how often they repeat it...they are merely trying to show that when they converted, they brought the greatest gift of all to the altar of the bloodiest mass murder the world has ever known...that they burned their Heritage on the altar of yahwe...therefore they are the BEST...because they sacrificed the MOST. That`s all being Assyrian means to them..it means how far they fell...not where they were.
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>>>> Oh please,even in Islam they are told that they are the chosen ones,that their religion is the best and that they are the only ones who would go to heaven.Not only that they are referred to as slaves of Allah.

...your roots are the same..you all trace your idocies back to The Old Testicles...naturally you all sound the same and ARE the same and every cop will tell you family squabbles are the bloodiest...Christians kneeling or prostrate before an altar where a dripping body hangs aren`t exactly NOT slaves.
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>
>>..it is absurd to claim you are an Assyrian. Simply absurd. There isn`t a shred of evidence for it anywhere...but indeed, you are allowed to believe anything you want to..there are over 400 Napoleons at any given time in mental hospitals and no one bothers arguing with them either...you are petted and indulged when you make these ridiculous claims..but no one takes you seriously...obviously. It`s a mean and stupid way to gain some recognition for your petty Christianity.
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>>>> It's absurd that you want to tell people how to feel and how to think of themselves.

..it always comes down to that..while your church has branch offices everywhere and is in every government and in bed with most corporations with billions of OUR tax free dollars at their disposal and radio and television and Mel Gibson to trumpet their message, not to mention "schools" where they can pour this poison into children, at one end...I, who have this silly forum...that has all of 150 people reading..am TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO THINK! Get real.

If you're just a human being why then are you getting yourself so worked up for Assyria if you don't believe neither in its existence nor in any thing else related to it?

..your inability to understand plain English is not my problem. I said I believe in the Assyrian heritage...the REAL Assyrians and their REAL Heritage..which is the same heritage Muslim Assyrians revere and respect..as well as all thinking people everywhere who can recognize their debt to those magnificent people...but that isn`t what you mean by "Assyrian"..you mean CHRISTIANS, who decided they were REAL and ONLY and PURE Assyrians because they thought to get some respect and land for their church..which has steadily been losing ground in the Mideast...what you believe is absurd and a con job and it fools no one else. I believe in honoring my Assyrian heritage along with my Muslim Assyrian heritage, my Chinese heritage and all of them..I am a human bean of THIS planet...I take them all in...BUT, my especial care is to give some reason for pride in THIS particular Heritage for my children and other children..to save it from the muck and mess and shameful thing you Christians have made of it..it is NOT the "language of Christ"..it is the language of ASHURBANIPAL...if anyone`s.

Yet you do mention it.May be for you there's no shred of evidence since you have been blinded by your hatred for Christianity that you reflect it even on Assyria,when the two have nothing to do with each other.

..I don`t hate Christ..I hate what you do in his name. But I advocate killing no one...and I kill no one and I would not join in and kill anyone..whereas you Christians can`t even HAVE a religion if you don`t KILL JESUS first!!! Did you hate him?

..there is no Assyria..there is no Albion..there is no Gaul..there are no Little People either...try to face up to some things.
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>
>...you`re the proof of it..you and others like you who, when you ask them to explain or express they`re "Assyrianism"...point to a JEW!
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>>>> That's your opinion and you have no proof of any thing.I never mixed being Assyrian with being Christian.

...when you speak of being Assyrian...your one outstanding requirement is that an Assyrian MUST be Christian...barring that, he MUST talkalotaboutit...about being "Assyrian"...which, when you look closely at what you mean by that..comes down to them practically having to BECOME Christian. It is YOU who have made every Christian/Jewish holiday and ritual into an "Assyrian" one. It`s such a farce.
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>
>...bullshit...that`s another lie of your`s...to you people religion IS ethnicity..everything you point to as "Assyrian" is in reality Christian...you`ve simply made a mountain, tribal, Christian culture, "Assyrian"...just like that. You have no idea what Assyrian is...none at all.
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>>>> That's how you're explaining it.I don't know any thing about what Assyrian is,ok then you teach us instead of wasting time with your attacks and repetative phrases.

...I`m not here to be your next teacher..or anyone else`s. I`m not going to replace one tape recording in your head with another...go out and find out for yourself..that`s what Jesus and I did.

..I know what being Assyrian in the modern era is for me...you go find it for you.
>
> ...go read something lese(else) besides manuscripts. I haven`t the time to unravel the mess in your head.
>
>>>> Hehehehe...You have time to repeat phrases day in and day out,at least write about some thing for a change.Who is reading manuscripts ??? Are you?

...you`re cute when you`re stumped.
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>
> ...you should try thinking before you write. Christians of the East at least had the OPTION to leave..and as we see...not all of them did by a long shot...several thousands have tried desperately to stay...even to this day...but thanks to YOU Christian evangelists...their situation has become intolerable..and STILL they don`t want to leave.
>
>>>> You should take your own advise(thinking before writing).
>OPTION? What option you're talking about?Who wanted to leave if they were not forced to through the "amicable" acts of your compatriots?

..they are not my compatriots, they are YOURS...you all believe in Abraham and Moses and the rest of that stuff. You just don`t like it when someone beats up on Jesus that`s all...although Muslims respect Jesus whereas all you have for Muhammad is scorn. There are thousands and thousands of Christians who remained in the MidEast..in Iraq and everywhere else..there is Tariq Azziz and Dr Donny George..my father and several others who lived and did just fine in the MidEast..who dealt with the peculiar status they had to endure as all people have at all times..with grace and dignity..they did not cry day and night for their religion...as you people do. Yet these Christians have now been pushed to the wall and will suffer greatly in years to come once AGAIN for the acts and noise and prayers of Christians OUTSIDE...people of various faiths are welcome to live in Europe..so long as they obey the laws of the land..you don`t like the laws then change them..you suppose it was easy for Black Americans to change the history and pattern and entrenched brutality of segregation in America? yet what do you think would have happened to them if they`d sent our prayers for Libya and a coalition of African nations to come "save them"? Grow up.
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>..When the Christian Crusaders took Jerusalem they killed every Muslim man, woman and child..and then, for fun, they rounded up all the Jews, locked them in their synagogue and burned them all to death..and you people were just warming up. You can say that all those people were also forced to¨"leave"...leave their lives and earth behind.
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>>>> The above was done several hundred years before to the Christians of the Middle East as well.It's not right in any of the cases but people do ugly things when it comes to fanaticism.

..no it was not. You show me the refernce in a HISTORY book..not a manuscript. Once again you are being sly..the Christians who were killed in the wars of Islam and Byzantium were SOLDIERS..murdering, marauding soldiers come to kill, rape and steal..and conquer and enslave..they were not "Christians" meek and mild...honestly! can`t you people NEVER tell the truth?

...Khalid Ibn Walid..the "Sword of Islam" was BEGGED by Christian villagers..not soldiers, to protect them from the Byzantines...because they knew what Heraclius would do to them...as he did to the Jews..told them all to convert to Christianity or they would take their children...or to get out...you really must take in the ENTIRE picture of what your religion has done and not cherry pick. And to his everlasting credit, when Khalid took the village under his protection..and exacted a PRICE which was common in those days as armies on the march lived off the land and people...but in Islam`s case at least, they did not strip and ruin the people...yet when he was forced to temporarily leave because of a Christian counter-attack..he returned the money to the terrified villagers..in FULL..because he could not honor his promise...thankfully he came back and kicked the shit out of the Christian ARMY..and saved the Christian VILLAGERS...it is for good reason European scholars and historians AND Christians call the Medival Muslims the "Gentlemen of the Middle Ages". Your church is a liar..a monumental liar..and you are its accomplice. You thrive where people remain ignorant and your only hope is to keep them that way.
>
>..Contrast that to when Islam took back Jerusalem..the Patriarch, who ran for his life, was invited back to tour the city and the rights of ALL to worship there were guaranteed...and that was upheld until only recently and once again because of Christian interference...Muslims tried valiantly to live side by side and in peace with Jews and Christians..it was CHRISTIANS who killed all who were different and THEN turned their swords on each other..just as the Hebrews had done when THEY discovered your murderous god. And it is Christians who, as part of their Final Solution, have set Jews against Muslims...making blood enemies of people of two faiths who remained friendly and supportive of each other for centuries...centuries when Christians were killing, robbing and harrassing them BOTH.
>
>>>> How kind of you to mention what you like and leave out what doesn't appeal to you.The muslims knew that the Christians of the middle east weren't as those who came from the west and that's why they still offered them protection going by a letter which was written years before that by their Prophet calling upon muslims to protect Christians of the East and if muslims over the years continued to follow that letter there should have been no slaughtering of Christians at all.

...it is true that Muhammad called Jews and Christians people of the book and admonished his followers to protect them and allow them to live in peace...but just as Christians can`t be bothered to differentiate between Muslims..as to them the only good Injun was a dead Injun...it stands to reason that with enough acts of treachery by some eastern Christians, Islam too would find it safer and more expedient to kep a wary eye on ALL of them (remember the infamous Levies)..but still, Christians have always played a role in government and universities...not until some of you began listenning to the West for real did YOU force suspicion and then hostility on all your brethren...Muhammad never knew to what lengths Britain and France and now America would go to..you don`t really expect Christians to be welcome any longer after all of this...do you? YOu people have made yourselves unwelcome...it didn´t take ALL of you to do it..just as it didn`t take even ONE Iraqi among fifteen Muslims to result in a war and the murder of thousands of innocent Iraqis..it must be that mad man of a serial killer god you all believe in that does this to ALL of you.

Today,just like you do when you cram all Christians into one box,muslims also are cramming all Christians into one box

...I see...and Christians are considering Muslims on a one by one basis?

without differentiating that those Christians of the East have nothing to do with those who are claiming to be Christians in the West.

...that is not Islam`s concern. It is not for them to bother to tell the difference..they are merely taking your lead. And your statement is false anyway...those villages in Iraq were the seedbed of this "we are Assyrians" bullshit..."so give us back OUR land". That is sedition anywhere on earth and NO sitting government, no matter how it came to sit there, will stand for it. That is a HOME GROWN idiocy...not a Western one..but the West knows how to use these things and our boys were quick and eager to be used...in that sense they have certainly earned the distrust they are viewed with...for they make it plain they are just sitting there WAITING for America to give them a triangle...and might they not DO something to bring about that Blessed Day to be?...especially as you ALL say the bible says that the "Assyrians" MUST be reinstated..or else old yahwe lied...so...might not Muslims think you boys would do more than just wait?

..and if you`re all so worried about those Christians..why have you people NOT mentioned or complained or protested the 27,000 CHRISTIAN Iraqi children killed by Sanctions and who knows how many more in this war? Why are you all STILL pointing to back BEFORE the Crusades while still blind to all the murder Christians are bringing there TODAY...and DEMANDING that YOU be treated fairly and looked upon dispassionately!!! What makes YOU so special?
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>As for the relation between the Jews and Muslims,there's no love lost there because animosity goes back to the days in Mecca when problems broke between the Jews who were there and the Messenger of Islam when they didn't recognize his teachings and the confrontations

..bull. Jews lived in peace in all the lands of the Mideast...and how do you account then for what YOU did to the very people who gave you Jesus...how you hounded and murdered and finally cooked and ate 6 million of them because THEY would not recognize Jesus as the Messiah? And what of what you did to Protestants and they to Catholics? That was all for the SAME religion!!! And you come pointing fingers at Islam???

which took place between the two are many leading to the expulsion of any one who didn't believe in Islam from the Arabian Peninsula."There shall be no two religions".

..not true...there have been Jews since before Muhammad in Arabia and there still are..though America stealing Palestine hasn`t helped them any. The Koran calls upon Muslims to respect Jews and Christians..and they do, insofar as you people are worthy of respect...you get no carte blanche to act as thugs and then wail later..look at what you have done to fellow CHRISTIANS over the ages!!! Are not America`s prisons full to bursting with CHRISTIANS...whose "rights and freedoms" are being DENIED? That`s the way you treat Islam when you speak of its "injustices"..as if they must tolerate ANYTHING you people do. According to Christians NO ONE has the right to fight back..because whatever you do to them, GOD told you to do it and they must accept that. They must become HIS slaves!!!
>
>..Christians have made themselves unwelcome in the MidEast...not all the ones who live there...but the few, like you..who buy all this nonsense and have taught and spread sedition..that the country BELONGS to someone other than the established government..doesn`t matter HOW that government was established..as America stole land from the indigenous people as well..as did everyone else...you can`t preach sedition ANYWHERE and yet you people think because "god is on your side", you should be allowed to. Catholics in America can`t agitate for their own part of the country..neither can Native Americans or Afro-Americans..neither can the Irish Cathiolics in Ireland nor the Basques of Spain...yet that is exactly what you "Assyrians" are doing down to this day..and that has played the biggest part in making Christianity suspect in the modern era...in that region.
>
>>>> Good so you admit that there was a land which belonged to an indigenous people and that land was stolen.

..all land was stolen..the ancient Assyrians stole plenty..that`s the way the world has worked..as Bismarck noted, "There is no altruism among nations"...neither is there any "Christianity". If you are living in America...Latin America, Britain. France, Ireland, Australia or Italy..you are living on the land STOLEN from indigenous populations..and the native people of America, Latin America and Australia are all still here and many with treaties in hand to PROVE they are who they say they are and what was promised to them...and only promised because it was first stolen..are YOU going to "give back" anything?

When foreigners are occupying and doing what they want why shouldn't the Assyrians be at least equal in living in dignity?

..They are not foreigners after 1,400 years...Islam has dominated the scene back there for TWICE as long as Christianity existed...what do you mean "foreigners"? Was Christianity BORN in BetNahrain..in Egypt...in Jordan...in Syria?

..you maintain your own dignity..you don`t cry for it. "Assyrians" in the West, those who clamor the loudest for "their lands" are about as undignifid a bunch as I`ve ever seen...thugs and schemers and opportunists who think they can win something by wailing the loudest and looking hurt..or corss-eyed.

..you just described what every government is doing today...people have to earn their dignity...Black Americans certainly did...no one GAVE them anything and they never once called on Africa to come "save them". You Christians get no special nothing anywhere in a Muslim country..you must be insane to think that is unjust..that there is no good reason for it. I suppose it is also unfair for Castro to not allow the CIA "full freedom of belief" by opening a station in Havana...grow up.

>What do you suggest they do?Pay the tribute like good little Christians?
>You have to admit that there's something in the dhemmi mentality which grabs your attention because forever you're hinting indirectly to it.

...you pay your taxes everywhere else in the world...and there is no additional tax levied on Christians anywhere...there certainly wasn`t in Iraq...
>
>...Christians, like the recent ones to leave...didn`t "leave". They were driven out because of what foreign Christians did to the country...just as in Turkey in the First World War. Think in equivalents, you dunce, and stop rooting for "your team". What would be the chances of getting a new mosque built in Manhattan today? What would Christian Americans do to Muslim Americans who called for and paid for and prayed for and then HELPED Muslim countries invade and occupy America? I have asked you these and more questions a dozen times..you and your breathren in ignorance and all you do is lightly skip over them to ask..."why do you hate Christ and goodness"?
>
>>>> I'm not with the policies which are followed in these countries against the Middle East.Now you tell me if the Muslims hate the western world so much why are they leaving the countries where they are the majority in and where the government is muslim and they are immigrating? Why are they leaving to the countries of the "Kuffar" ???

..why do Mexicans run across the border into America..why did so many Iranians run to America even though America overthrew their government...how did America gain its leadership position in the world if NOT by enticing people..even the people from the lands they destroyed..to come to America? people the world over respect the EXAMPLE and principles of freedom of America...they do NOT like the government...and neither do half the Americans.

..it is impossible to agitate for change in the MidEast in any country that sells oil to America...Saudi and Egyptian jails are filled with intellectuals and writers who wish very much to stay and change their societies..but America will not permit it...as they did not allow it in Latin America for decades and as Britain fought hard against any Indian freedom movement for two hundred years, the MidEastern countries closest to the United States are MONARCHIES for heaven`s sake!!!...how OLD are you???
>
>
>...then tell us your EXACT contact with Muslims YOURSELF. YOU stop generalizing about Islam, Muslims, Arabs, Nasser and the rest of it.
>
>>>> You're the one generalizing about Christianity all the time,I'm merely answering your claims.I have had contact with Muslims growing up and those I knew were just like any other person whether Christian or Jew who are decent.

...okay.
>
>
>...this is the inside truth about the claim to be Assyrian. There is most definitely a consciousness of having an Assyrian Heritage...as there is of having had an Assyrian MUSLIM heritage...and you can certainly be of the Christian faith and be an Assyrian..but being Assyrian has nothing to do with what you SAY or how often you repeat things and it has NOTHING to do with religion..unless it be a belief in Ashur..and I do happen to believe in Ashur. You can tell a religion by what it inspires its followers to do...and so far there isn`t a damn thing inspirational in what you people represent...except your same old dismal and dreary Christianity that inspires you to be pious hypocrites and await a Jew Messiah..because you can`t wipe your own noses.
>
>>>> And the way that you're presenting represents Ashur and the Assyrian heritage???

..it`s my way. I believe Assyrians were fearless and expressed their pride in any number of ways...I think building the first Assyrian not Christian monument anywhere in the world in the last 2500 years will do..it`s enough for one person in one lifetime...but I think too...and I speak out. Assyrians did all of that I am sure.
>
>
>...It is unheard of, in the modern era, for Assyrians to have collectively spent close to a million dollars on sculpture or art of ANY kind..let alone Assyrian art. I built the first Assyrian, not Christian, public monument in 2500 years anywhere on earth...and you`re left having to tell me I must not be Assyrian...because I deny your nonsensical pandering and use of that noble name. Go use someone else.
>
>> I didn't deny you being Assyrian but you did,leaving Christianity aside.

....No I did not. I am Assyrian because of the things I DO..not what I say. It isn`t a holy status or a mystic state...a Japanese can easily be more Assyrian than Peter Jassim...you people treat it as a birthright when it was never even that 4000 years ago..the Assyrians took in all sorts of people..allowed them to bring their gods and respected everyone..there weas none of this mania for MONO gods back then..people were tolerant and respectful..because they knew the wheel of fortune could turn again and THEY would be on the bottom..and would appreciate some respect for their gods and ways in turn...being Assyrian back then meant working to further the Assyrian heritage and culture..it did NOT mean building churches...and no one wants to build temples to Ashur today...Assyrians were dynamic and flexible..they grew and changed like any intelligent adult or community would..it is you people who pat yourselves on the back for changing NOTHING in 2000 years...for wanting to rule yourselves JUST like that nut god said you should...this is a formula for arrested childhood...to respect Ashur today means to respect the legacy he inspired his people to create...I respoect that legacy and find it inspiring to me...I have nothing to do with the corpse of a Jew hanging in a building...and I won`t eat ANYONE..I won`t even play at it, "symbolically".
>
>
>..there were slaves and Black dhemmis in America only a short while ago...and people of color in America STILL face discrimination...and the indigenous people of America are STILL denied any rights to their lands..so what are you talking about? The people you are refering to who suffered discrimination in those countries did so because of the KIND of Christians they were..your kind, who believe they are entitled to some part of the country. My father was in the Iraqi army..it`s true he couldn`t rise beyond a certain rank...but then women STILL don`t receive equal pay for equal work in America and when my father was a major in the Army of Iraq...Black CHRISTIAN Americans cleaned latrines in the American military..and they fought long and hard to free themselves..they didn`t piss and moan about 1568 and 1931 the way you people do.
>
>>>> The kind of Christians they were??? You mentioned it yourself?Why wasn't your father allowed to rise beyond certain kind?He was a good man wasn't he and he didn't do any thing wrong so why was he denied higher ranks? Because he was a Christian and most probably if it was during the Baath regime because he didn't join the party.

..it was before the Baath and ward politics is nothing new..if you wanted to get ahead in an American city you either had to move to the right neighborhood or join the ward boss`party...why do you cry about everything? Things changed in Iraq,...a Christian became foreign minister and we know there were Christian generals now and had my father`s body been flown back to Iraq he would have received a state funeral with full honors...Iraq came out of a troubled past..it did not have a Parliamentary, European, Enlightenment and Age of Reason to dip into in it`s recent past, as America had..it did not have secure and impregnable borders in its infancy, as America and England had...it never even had the chance to recover and begin to grow before the West decided in needed oil to run its machinery and build its wealth..and Islam is 700 years younger than Christianity...go back 700 years in your own religion and you`ll be surprised, or maybe not, at the barbarity and ignorance and discrimination and burning of innocent women and hatred of women and sanctioned murders and bugaboos you`ll find....people need time to mature in their own ways...there could be a race from space far superior to any Christ you believe in...would you feel that justified their grabbing you by your neck and "improving" you while killing your family in the process?

As for Tariq Aziz he was neither a Christian nor an Assyrian or a Catholic Chaldean for that matter.He accepted being called an Arab as he accepted the Baath ideology and he went from there.

..this is your game...I have no trouble being called an Arab..as none of you have being called Americans...in fact you CRAVE it. He was Christian..the pope knew that if you don`t. And he is and was of the Assyrian heritage..as was Saddam himself...as was Haroun Al Rashid and Scherezade... grow up.
>
>
>...they were NEVER a majority. before Islam came there were plenty of pagans in the region..not everyone, in fact NO ONE, was converted to Christ. It is far more likely that whatever Christians came to the region were recently converted Jews...driven out by the Romans...you people never appealed to anyone anywhere..and it must hurt you, no doubt..so your church created the myth of the millions and millions of murdered or forcibly converted Christians to explain your small numbers.
>
>>>> Not true at all.The descriptions given by arab writers about the numbers of Churches and Monasteris in Bet Nahrain and the break down of the Dioceses clearly shows that the majority of the inhabitants at the time of Arab invasion were Christians.

..there are plenty of Arabs who describe themselves as Arab Christians..therefore your "Arab" writers could be the same old same old.

...show your numbers...and when you do it will still mean nothing...half the WORLD were not Christians and were all forced into it at the point of a sword..we have independent records to prove it too...so what? Why should your religion and numbers be spared ahywhere on earth...when did you spare anyone?
>
>
>...Left on your own..even tolerated as you were in China and Japan and India too...in all the intervening centuries, you have attracted no one...NO ONE. Your numbers there simply reflect what you would get if you put 300 rats in a cage and let them fuck each other for 1000 years...that`s all. Wherever you gained a nut job or two...you also lost one or two..and that`s your entire story in the East. Left to itself Christianity would have remained the minority religion it ALWAYS was...in fact, had the Byzantines had their way, you ALL would have been murdered or forcibly converted to Orthodoxy..or your orphanned children at least...you should be thankful to Muhammad for his armies saved you and allowed you to go on with your silly peculiarities because all they asked of you was that you obey the law and stop killing each other over Jesus...it was because of their indifference to your sects and their protection of the region from attack by Byzantium and the Eastern Roman Empire and its Imperial Church that you people were able to survive...but you attracted no one.
>
>>>> They were not forced to convert.

..I don`t know whom you mean by that...you heretics were indeed not forced to convert or die..because Islam protected you...you must not know what the Byzantines did to Christian heretics..it wasn`t pretty...why do you think they added a word to our vocabulary?
>
>...The only Christianity that "worked"...that "won" new converts, was Western Christianity and their bloody record and history of how they accomplished this "miracle" is known well enough..and it is a record that would shame anyone but a Christian. And you are IN the West, appealing to these "wrong" Christians to also save your sorry asses. You can BE a murder or NEED and HIRE a murderer..the Law sees you as accomplices deserving of the same punishment for committing the crime TOGETHER
>
>...You people in the East were ALWAYS the minority...you never won the hearts and minds of the majority of the pagans there...it was Islam that did that...far more than Christianity ever did...it was Islam that beat back the marauding Eastern Christians who would never have allowed you all to keep your fucking sects...so be grateful to Muhammad for that as well....you owe your "Assyriansm" to Islam for they protected you from being swallowed up in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
>
>>>> You're telling half the truth if any at all of how Islam settled in the East.

...it doesn`t matter HOW they did it...the history of the world and its three Jew based religions is filled with blood and guts and forced conversions and horrors too long to list..the sight of you trying to cut yourself free of it is ludicrous...it doesn`t matter..there is no court you can appeal to....every complaint you have has been echoed down through the ages..that`s just the way it is...the first real attempt to confront that was the United Nations..and all they turned out to be was a whipping boy, when not an office, of the Christian West...their very first order of business turned out to be stealing Palestnian lands to make an ILLEGAL new country..trampling the rights of INDIGENOUS people, where today Israel is now a LEGITIMATE country, it`s an old story, happened all the time...give it a rest.
>
>..like I said...at any given time there are 400 Napoleons and probably the same number of Cleopatras in mental hospitals and no one bothers arguing with them either..but for all of that, sane people know those inmates are nuts..just as we know you are. There isn`t a damn thing that is Assyrian about you..you are an offshoot of the Jewish faith and have no home to call your own...sound familiar?
>
>>>> You're not the one who decides who is Assyrian or not,nor are your napoleons,cleopatras and the rest of the gang.I'm not related to any thing Jewish either.

...no one even knows who you are and you must have good reason to keep quiet about it...people who are anonymouse are anonymouse..there`s a reason they coined that term. If you`re Chistian then your Jewish...an offshoot, but the root and guts of your Christianity is all Jewish. You still hate your roots?
>
>...there was no guilt in Iraq...there was no guilt among the Jews you people cooked in Poland. You are the rapists who think you can cover your crimes by saying "all people" do bad things. We all know the innocent suffer...we also know that for the last 100 years it is the Christian who have brought death and destruction top innocent people the world over...nothing you prattle about can change that..I don`t care how many of Nasser`s prograns didn`t work...and stop carrying on about being a dhimmie...it seems to be a permanent state of mind with you...not a role you once occupied. Get over yoursewlf...get up off your knees and go do something Assyrian for a change..whinning and cringing and pointing out the obvious was never Assyrian..we were builders and dooers and visionaries..the only vision you people have is of yourselves on a cloud some day. Airhead!
>
>>>> As you keep on repeating the same ideas over and over and you talk about not generalizing yet you're the one who does it with so much passion.Take a deep breath of fresh air it will do you good.

...boring...

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Continuation Wonderer - Wednesday, March 30 2005, 9:10:23 (CEST)
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