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=> Re: let`s cut the crap...

Re: let`s cut the crap...
Posted by Dalale (Guest) - Thursday, June 2 2005, 19:41:37 (CEST)
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Dalale wrote:
>Mr. Parhad,
>
>A lot of what you say is true, from my point of view. I have no bias against you, and I respect your achievements. Although, there is another side to the story, and the story you tell. If you fairly told both sides, you would beat out all those who claim that you are the ultimate "enemy". I don't mean to criticize you, I’m no critic by any means, but you do lean very much to one side at times. Then again, so do most people.

...that`s indeed true...however, I "lean" to one side, as you say, because the ship is listing badly to the other side and will go under if we keep this up. I`m not interested in beating anybody out or being liked or being influential..that should be clear by now...

********** Ok, so you don’t want to be liked, and could care less what people think…I also have this characteristic.


> Of course you know that Assyrians were also converted to Islam by force, as the "Christians" forced Christianity on the Native people when the old world met the new World.

...I don`t agree. That`s one of the church`s fables. No one of the three sisters from hell has EVER converted people forcibly EXCEPT Christianity. The earliest Hebrew converts to yahwe did indeed kill their own people, but Muslims did not, not for their god, but because their immediate neighbors tried to kill THEM..Muslims are told to respect the religions of the other two "People of the Book" which you Christians especially do not..as witness the Jews Christianity killed and the Muslims it is attacking now, who never did a thing to Western Christians.

********* Never have Assyrian-Christians converted people by force into Christianity. If Europeans took on their own brand of “Christianity” and molded it into some kind of killing machine, then they are only using Christ for their own purposes. Jesus did not say to kill thy neighbor, rather to “love thy neighbor”, if “Christians” kill their neighbors, they are not Christians/Mshikhaye.

**********Right …right… the Assyrians converted into Islam freely and Genghis Khan was a ballerina too.

**********If Assyrians chose to become Muslim and leave the ancient Assyrian Religion, why blame Assyrian converts to Christianity who would rather just marry one wife?


But they also live in a real world and when Christian neighbors of theirs have betrayed them for the promises of foreign co-religionists, Muslims get mightily pissed..as anyone would.

*********** Well …..have they not done the same to Assyrians with their co-religionists? What choices do we have? If we were safe, and could practice our Religion without discrimination in our homeland, and if we had equal rights, we would not have to try to get in with other “coalitions.” Do you think our co-religionists give a damn about us anyway? They “care” just as our “co-religionists” stood by and watched as we were slaughtered in Simele.

We unfortunately are a week Nation..with only very few true leaders … and of many enemies, and if we had any brains we would UNITE and work for the future of our Nation and the children of Assyria.

*********** It is amazing to watch one of my proff’s this semester.. in a course i’m taking about ancient Egypt….the land of KHEM. She so passionately calls the Assyrians “INVADERS” into Egypt, to drill that point into the students heads... Assyrians =Invaders, in her little mind. When she gets to the Greeks she softly says they were “conquerors.” She almost had a heart attack when I said that some scholars have suggested that the builder of Memphis (capital of Egypt for a long time) was the son of Sargon.... Damn some of these “historians” …they make up their own history and are so passionate about it too..and then she giggles and says...well I guess I have my biases...ya so obvious!

 Muhammad did NOT tell them to turn any cheeks..if Christians of that region wished to live and practise their religion in peace, as they were doing UNTIL this recent Crusade...there was no problem...but, if they played fast and loose..as for instance by aligning themselves with foreign Christians, then they could expect reprisals...as Americans would punish any Americans who listened to a foreign power
>
********** What to do Mr. Parhad? Tell us what should Assyrian Christians have done?

>It is a miracle that we have survived, even as Assyrian Christians.

...do you really call THIS survival?

************* Well, when I went to the last convention I quietly questioned myself on THIS too, but there were and are a few bright lights which make even THIS worthy of the term survival.

True, we are somewhat lost, but at least we are trying to find our ancient identity once again.

...I see no evidence of that either...the ancient Assyrians have value to modern "Assyrians" ONLY for the "sacrifice" they made to Judaism..that`s it!

********** I was speaking of myself, and many of the Assyrian youths from Europe who are embracing their ancient Identity along with Christianity. Especially the Suryoye- Othoroye of Europe who are ahead of all others in this regard.

(I can only speak for myself) The Coptic Church inherited and amalgamated much of the ancient Egyptian traditions when they became Christians,

...what are you refering to as "Egyptian"? Many things in Egyptian paganism impressed Plato and he designed most of early Christianity.

********Yes, Plato…. quite a guy….the Allegory of the Cave..my favorite …

so the Assyrians also kept some of their Assyrian traditions through Christianity.

...name one. Name one that is NOT church tradition FIRST. And name one that ONLY Christian "Assyrians" practise.

******** Ok, I’ll name one --LANGUAGE. Although the ancient Assyrians spoke Akkadian, and wrote with the cuneiform writing system on clay tablets, they did eventually adopt the Aramaic system of writing, way before Christianity ever appeared on the scene, and although they used the Aramaic script, much of the ancient Assyrian, Akkadian, language was still being used. Kind of like the Coptic language which used Greek letters for writing, although the words were ancient Egyptian. Like I in Arabic could write to you in English letters, Shu.. Keefak, keef sahtak .. leish m3asib?!

*****SO, we Assyrian-Christians, have preserved an evolved form of Akkadian, that we still speak to this day, and this of course was an ancient tradition before it later became a church tradition.

they adopted Christianity, and they kept their language alive through Christianity.

I’m not saying that all Assyrians are Christian, and that all Christians are Assyrians either. We have lost our true identity as a Nation, but I believe there are individuals who have found a balance of both.

...of course..that may be. But if that is true, those individuals would lean to the side of the boat that is exclusively Assyrian with NO semblance of Christianity to it...Christians are in every wide spot in the road..they are crawling between heaven and earth like a plague..they are murdering people everywhere they can find the slightest excuse or none at all, excpe they WANT to..and just remember that there wouldn`t even BE any Christianity if NOT for murder..for that initial murder you all celebrate by eating the flesh and drinking the blood, for play and "make-believe", of your first and most innocent victim...Christianity is SAFE.....and doing very well and in no danger or need of any further stroking or care..it is the REST of us, Assyrians included, who are in danger of being run over and into the ground by it...therefore let those who "feel" at all Assyrian...work for the Assyrian Heritage for a change...and you can all start by throwing Nimrod out a window...anything above four storeys would do.

***** If you read Gnostic scriptures you would know about what Jesus said to his apostles about the nature of his suffering…… before he was crucified…so that they would not go into shock….this part was of course cut out of the Bible because it involved magic and somewhat occult behavior… the apostles standing in a circle singing with Jesus in the middle chanting numbers and words which the disciples answered with AMEN… ….or maybe not…Muslims say he was not crucified. and of course you know that Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet also.

************I know that there is no need to choose between Ashur and Jesus. I know and believe that Krishna was also an aspect of God….I am no extremist…and understand the nature of “doctrines”…The Koran didn’t fall down from heaven either..as is believed….. I don’t care for heaven…..if it exists fine..if it doesn’t... whatever….and no one can sell me a ticket to get up there. I know that my soul is everlasting, and I don’t need any priest to be my connection to God. When I am taking a walk, and am bored I speak to Him or more probably Her, and you know what…many people have religious experiences… I had one when I was four years old… I beat out Mani who had one when he was twelve!


>Did you know that some Jewish Scholars believe and claim that Christianity =Assyrian?

...Jews can do what they want...everyone can rent a house by the sea and live happily ever after...for my part I know Christianity has reduced us to mush and is about to wipe us off the face of the earth...either as corpses or as terminal mush. My center of gravity and focus has NOTHUING to do with what Jews or their blood brothers the Christians have to say...I know when Ashur would be pleased and I know when he is saddened....where you all EVER got the idea that a Messiah or Deliverer was EVER any part of our heritage I can`t figure out. Christianity has made you all NEED one...that`s been its "gift" to you.

********* I agree with you that we need to become born again Assyrians by learning about our history and our TRUE IDENTITY….but for me that does not mean we have to get rid of our Christian roots.. I told you … Jesus on the winged disk…it’s great…. Did he not float away on a “cloud” and won’t he be coming back in a “cloud”??? Ashur and Jesus are pals…



>Back to Natives….I have personally always believed that the Native people, in their own religion, as many of the ancient religions, knew much more about the true spirit of Christianity. Some churches have become businesses, NGO's, and although there is a spiritual side also, they do not share with us the truth of our religion, because they cannot bear to tell the world that they lied to us. And yes they did lie, and keep many of the secrets to themselves because they do not want to share it with the “common man”.

...Christianity was IMPOSED on people..their own values, spirituality, culture, legends, myths, rituals...the entire SOUP they and their ancestors were raised in and developed painstakingly since Time began for them was wiped out by the Christian armies who converted them...the rest of you, the Eastern ones, I`m not convinced aren`t just the first descendants of those earliest Jewish converts to Christianity. I don`t believe for a minute that there were millions and millions of you in pagan countries..that pagans who never heard of that minor cult, which is all it was in its day, threw away their magnificant civilizations at the MENTION of Jesus and his father..just don`t buy it...especially when all we have to go by is the word of that same dubious, lying, self-serving preisthood of scoundrels...

**********Assyrians were the first to adopt Christianity. No one forced us… it was a very natural processfor us.. …temples to the god SIN…turned into temples to Jesus….

********Europeans imposed Christianity on other Nations…yes..for sure.. but Assyrians willingly became Christian..although I’m not sure why exactly they became Catholic. I was born a Catholic ..no offence……….. it just bothers me that Churches are splitting our nation today…that everyone seems brainwashed… lost our true identity….and that priests are allowed to play politics.


...and yet. where we DO have ample and unbiased accounts...in the OTHER half of the world, we can SEE how people were murdered into Christianity...therefore logic alone, if nothing else, as well as some bare appreciation for human psychology, tells us that it is not possible that the same religion that people refused to surrender their ways, for unto death...in one place...that being HALF of the world..is the SAME religion we are to believe people LEAPT into in the OTHER part of the world...especially when you add that the people we know to have been murdered into it had not the vast and far richer cultures, than the ones we are expected to believe jumped into Jesus..leaving behind all the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian and other high cultures..it is a lie... and so improbable that, of course, you must take it on "faith"..in other words, render yourself stupid enough to believe just about anything.

********* Yes it does seem that our Christianity is of a very different nature then the other kinds. Therefore, logic tells us that they are not the same religion..just the same supposed name. If two brothers…twins perhaps live their life and one becomes a murderer and the other a saint, do we judge the saint by the actions of the murderer?

********* Now by no means do I mean all of Assyrians have adopted the True Spirit of Christianity. Most of them believe everything that is sold to them wholesale…everything the Church says must be true, and they have also been brainwashed. All they know is some Church songs (although beautiful) which they repeat, but they do not search to find the True Voice of Jesus. Then again maybe knowing a few simple things is to know the True Voice of Jesus...who knows... I am entitled to my point of view! I am trying to give a voice for the True Spirit of Christianity which does not preach murder..and hell .....maybe I do not even understand Christ....

...The Pagans the earliest Christians settled among TOLERATED you people because that was ever the pagan way in BetNahrain where ALL gods were welcome, tolerated and respected...because the ancients knew the gods of a People kept them whole and sane and together and able to contribute their best..and also kept them happy enough to accept the turns and twists of fate...enduring loss and hardship in hope of being restored by their gods one day..it was in everyone`s interests to respect the other persopn`s gods because the next time around today`s master could be tomorrow`s slave...that Assyrian Golden Rule at work.

***********We were not Pagans…. You are using a European term which they labeled us with, as they accused the Egyptians of believing in a zillion gods…which is not true… Monotheism existed of course long before the Hebrews came along. If our scirputres were so “pagan” why did the hebrews they use the Enuma Elish to create Genesis? Our Gods became their Nefilim..

************ A Sumerian proverb… He who seeks Truth generates life. We can all make up stories….and write “history”….the Truth though is Living….and herstory would have been much more accurate.

...But..being tolerated alone is not enough for pain-in-the-ass EVANGELICALS! Merely being allowed to worship PRIVATELY as they see fit, won`t do for those who believe it is their DUTY to bang on your door at midnight and tell you all about themselves. And that was at the core of any "persecution" you people brought on YOURSELVES. You were NEVER "massacreed"...for heavin`s sake...especially not for being "Assyrian". You were roundly hated at times..but that`s understandable and forgiveable..hell, you hate EACH OTHER!!!

****** I don’t hate anyone..even those who think I hate them…

..You can see how insular those people are still..what they do to a daughter or son who marries a foreigner..a non-Christian...or even a Christian who is not "Assyrian"..and that`s TODAY! For all those centuries and millenia you lived among Muslims and pagans too..you intermarried like crazy...inbreeding your ways to an Aprim and Jassim...genetic dingbats if there ever were any...your numbers in the MidEast reflect exactly what would happen if 500 Jew converts to Christianity screwed only each other for 2000 years...that is all. It`s a lie that people from all over RAN and JUMPED into Jesus. For the love of all that is really holy, THINK sometimes!

****** I do think, “therefore I am” Descartes


Check out Gnostic scriptures sometime. Jesus did not want to be portrayed as a weak, beaten down God, dieing on a cross, and through his death all sins would disappear, making us feel guilty about breathing….no that is not Jesus..and yes he even danced….and had a occult magical side to him…..and he would have looked more in his place on the winged disk, as Ashur, and Zoroaster etc....

...a wonderful guy no doubt...he and I would have been great pals and would have laughed many a time over the antics of "Christians"...and I would have REFUSED point blank to "benefit from his willing sacrifice". But there was love and kindness and nobility and majesty and self-sacrifice and honesty and respect for elders and joy in children well BEFORE Jesus. Your ten commandments are nothing but Hammurabi`s Code, (garbled and chopped up, as those people never could do a damn thing right)....and most of all in BetNahrain, where the highest civilization of its day was gracing the landscape when Jesus wasn`t even thought of..it is a great insult to tell us our ancestors were bloody savages who`s greatest act EVER was to realize they were mistaken all along..as Ken Doll says Muslims told him THEY have been...and dumped Ashur for the "values" of Christianity...Christianity is NOT about love and kindness...I mean how much more do you have to see of it before that becomes OBVIOUS? It is certainly crystal clear to those at the other end of the barrel of Christian Love. All Christianity is, is the belief that if you accept Jesus being killed for YOU...you can get his clothes..and his clothes will get you unbelievable goodies..that`s ALL! And, to join the gang...you HAVE to eat his flesh and drink his blood and feed this gore to your darling and trusting babies! And WE Assyrians were savages???!!!

********** Yes a wonderful soul. And you probably are great pals…you just keep it secret. I would have also refused….. and yes there was love and kindness and nobility before…I am not much for “commandments” either…they are not detailed enough…. And commandments don't work for me… I have to be .asked....nicely…friendly advice would have been better....or by example..as Jesus did.

****** Well …symbolism is hard to understand…and the rituals were symbolic.
>
>Rome is the church of power. When they attacked the Natives, they didn't care about the true spirit of Christianity. All they hungered for was gold, and expanding the Christianity of Rome, as they did to us when they divided our Nation… a never-ending dilemma which has crippled and is crippling our Nation today.

..the true spirit of Christianity IS bloodshed..it IS theft! It is killing people if they refuse YOUR god...for no other reason BUT that! It is murderous intolerance...I can`t see why you keep looking for the good in something that`s had 2000 years to get it right...and HAS!!! Look at it. And yet, you have so little interest in anything Assyrian that is NOT primarily Christian first!

********* The True Spirit of Christianity is Jesus… who did he ever kill? In his name people were killed….yes....…but not by his command or in his instructions…

********* I am very interested in everything Assyrian, whether it is Christian or not. I just happen to see a connection with Assyrianism and Christianity . He was “before Abraham”….. =) Assyrian, Akkadian, Sumerian??????

...had Christ been saved and spared his execution not a ONE of you could get your Heaven...what kind of an improvement is that over what the Assyrians had? The benefits of ritual human sacrifice..that`s ALL Hebrew religion was..and that`s at the core of Christianity..which is nothing more than a major sect of Judaism....where in Ashur`s name is there ANYTHING for an Assyrian in that? We come from a background that MADE a heaven on earth...only you had to be worthy of it yourself HERE...not up there soemwhere and not on the wings of a corpse...the belief in an afterlife is a consolation prize for Hebrews and those who have been MADE into Hebrews...it is the belief that someone will conme someday to wipe your nose...something you haven`t the power to do yourself..because the Jews were powerless under the Roman yoke. What else COULD they have believed?

********** Yes and Muslims get 50 virgins in Heaven… I guess they have a certain “heaven” in mind … funny thing is the Ancient Assyrians also had a heaven…and they were obsessed with the heavens…that is why many of them were Astrologers……

********* By the way, I study Astrology as a hobby…and it is very much not a Christian thing to do. Give me your birth date I’ll do your birth chart. I don’t know why but I think you might be a Scorpio…Leo...or.maybe Gemini?????


>
>No one sect of Christianity is the true Christianity, and I don't mean to criticize Roman Catholics who have truly embraced Christianity. I’m sure they have many true believers, but it doesn’t matter what sect of Christianity a person “belongs” to. It is up to the individual to live in a Christian way, or not, (freedom of choice, free will).

...living in a Christian way is what got us here..it is what led to the rounding up and murder of millions of totally innocent human beans..NOT 1000 years ago but 60 years ago...and it is today embarking on its next great mission...the murder of Islam where just as many people and children will be murdered..this is the real Christian way. You are like the shocked and horrified daughter, sent away to finishing school in Europe, who learns what the family business REALLY is..and tries to lead an exemplary personal life..to atone for the famiglia and in hopes of cleaning up their name..you are a daughter of a Mafia Clan..one of the most deadly and viscious the world has ever seen...you happen to have been born into it though you don`t personally follow their practises...but honey, you help clear their name! You and all the rest of you "nice people" are JUST what the head Don needs..you`re the ones who can be counted on to explain away every crime and murder and theft...by asking for "understanding" or "forgiveness"...and pointing over to where your cousins stand..heads respectfully lowered, because they got caught...the guns and blood still dripping from their hands and ask for another chance for these wayward but dear fellows who are trying AWFULLY hard to be good...and it works every time and the hoods are let loose and they do it all over again..and again..and again..and just as surely..as if it was a PART of the entire family business, YOU appear again to plead for some respect and tolerance for your murderous crew.

**** I never plead, it is not my way…nor the Assyrian way…and I would rather die then beg….. And those you describe are not Christians, and I am not part of any Mafia Clan either….I’m a Catholic turned Gnostic…and a Assyrian soon to turn Mandean..jk…. look.. I’m HUMAN…. and I do not accept the killing of any humans…including Muslims…but I also do not accept them killing people of my Nation, who have never forcibly converted anyone…and have in the last century been literally crucified…..

*****In this physical world…it seems we were born to kill or be killed………… it’s all that guys fault who put Adam and Eve together in the garden and then left them alone. Well WHAT THE HELL DID YOU THINK THEY WERE GOING TO DO?

****** I do not want to go to heaven…all I ask of God is when I reincarnate it should be in a dimension where we are spirit and not matter.

..it is an inspired partnership.
>
>
>Many Iraqi-Muslims of today were probably once Akkadians, Sumerians, Babylonians, and maybe even Assyrians, but they were forced to, or have consciously left their ancient identity, and although I have met many of them who claim to be of these ancestries, the majority claim they are Arabs.

...this is old stuff by now and means nothing to the point. They can say whatever they want..as you people can..it doesn`t make a BetBassoo out of a Jassim...you people place your everything on talk and names. Muslim Assyrians have 1,400 years of proud and magnificent history as MUSLIMS...the term "Arab" is something you throw around..or, it is the more recent attempt to form a united front to counter the united front of European Christianity..which is also many various groups..same as with "Arab". Arabs themselves..as late as the early 1900s had no concept of an "Arab"...they knew of no such country...only of their tribal lands...this is getting old.

******* Islam =Arab=Arab Religion=Arab Language.
>
>What is a Nationality anyway? Were the Jewish people not from Mesopotamia? Did they not leave their homeland, and establish a whole new identity?

...you are referring to a People who KEPT their miserable little god..while you are all THRILLED to have dumped your magnificent one..there is a world of difference.

********** Their god was not a miserable little god… he was Jealous and violent..lethal combination!

>
>Identity and Nationality is a complicated matter.

...made uninteligible by Aprim and the rest of the nationalists.

********* When will you be writing a book?
>
>I wish you and your family well.

..thanks...same to you.

…danke
>
>Abbey

...as in church?
.
…In English…...Yes..church....the Abbey…but in the True Spirit of Christ not the fake one bought and sold with gold..… My name is really Abir …an Arabic name..... These Alqoshites…they give us Arabic names instead of calling me Inanna.


Leaving on a light note. A tribal joke.

************There was an Assyrian from Tyare who teamed up with a Suryoyo-Othoroyo, trying to convince three Chaldeans and one Aramean to become Assyrian. One of the Chaldeans was from Alqosh, the other from Aradin, and the last one from Tilkef. The Aramean was from Syria. The two double team Tyaraya and Othoroye give them all a lectures on the matter of Assyrianism, and they (the four being lectured) interested enough go out and search for their ancient identity. They read the words of their ancestors and are passionately convinced. A few months later they are conversing with the Assyrian and the Othoroye about their ancient history etc… and they happen to have read so much that the two cannot even keep up with their newfound knowledge. In anger …..the Assyrian screams out, “but YOU are not the REAL Assyrians ...I AM”. The Othoroye on the other hand smiles in is overjoyed that he gained four brothers.



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