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Posted by
Paul Younan
(Guest)
- Sunday, October 24 2004, 17:14:04 (CEST) from 68.20.250.22 - adsl-68-20-250-22.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net  Network -  Windows XP -  Internet ExplorerWebsite: Website title: |
![[ 200 x 50 - 1.11 ko ]](http://www.peshitta.org/images/Peshittalogo.jpg) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul, I come across this type of inflammatory rhetoric from time to time since we live in a university town. I don't quite understand what the agenda is of the person doing the insulting. I usually put people like this on psychotropic medicine to kind of cool off their bizarre behavior. Think I could get Tiglath to see me in my office some day. I don't know if "aunty christ" is the same person as Tiglath but at least we know that the religion to which "aunty christ" adheres is much different from the Christian faith. His insulting demeanor adds nothing to this forum and certainly has nothing to do with Peshitta primacy. These two people (if they are two) seem intent on destruction. However, usually, when one person intends on destroying another person the one being destroyed is the accuser himself. Paul, what do you think their primary purpose is here? If it has nothing to with Peshitta primacy I would ask that you allow me to delete their posts. These silly posts which Tiglath have typed reveal a rather shallow academic ability at research. For the record let me elaborate on some important facts. Ishtar was a "goddess" worshipped in Western Asia by the Babylonians, Assyrians, Sumerians, and Akkadians beginning in ~3000 B.C. According to legend she fell in love with the Sumerian King Gilgamesh but he refused to be her consort so she killed his best friend. Are there any Biblical stories to which this reminds you? Me neither. Ishtar's son, Tammuz (that's right Tammuz was her son), is murdered by his own mother because he brings life to earth (each year). Remind you of anything Biblical? Me neither As a result of Tammuz's death everything on earth dies and Ishtar asks her sister, Allatu (goddess of the underworld), to allow him to come back to life. Allatu complies but Tammuz is allowed to return for only half a year, each year. Remind you of the resurrection? Me neither. Tammuz was Ishtar's son, brother, and husband. He was the god of the Euphrates and Tigris Rivers. Sound like Jesus? Me neither People sacrificed animals to her and prayed to her in the temples. This does sound similar to the Jewish faith in their worship of YHWH. Big deal. Let me address some of Tiglath’s posts. He said “The entire Judeo-Christian religion is based on ancient Mesopotamian religion, culture and holidays.” Me-The “entire” Judeo-Christian is based on ancient Mesopotamian religion, culture, and holidays? Come on Tiglath, the entire Jewish faith and the entire Christian faith is based on what the Ancient Mesopotamians believed? You know better than that. Exactly which religion in ancient Mesopotamia spoke in tongues like the original Christians did? Which religion in ancient Mesopotamia practiced worshipping a resurrected God who was crucified on a cross? You know none did. Crucifixion was a Roman (or perhaps a Phoenician or Persian) invention beginning in ~500BC, long after the worship of Ishtar began. Tiglath which ancient Mesopotamians practiced execution by crucifixion? Is this one fact (fact, not myth) enough to unhinge your silly premise? Tiglath continues- One myth the Ishtar and Tammuz love story is enough to unhinge your shaky religion. Here's a sum-up of what you will no doubt choose to ignore. 1. Spring Equinox (March 21st) = Resurrection of Ishtar and Tammuz from the netherworld. Sacred Marriage of Ishtar and Tammuz where the semi-divine King representative of the God Ashur/Marduk conducts Heiros Gamos with the virgin High priestess and representative of Ishtar. Christian version Jesus' resurrection from the dead. Me-The facts surrounding Ishtar and Tammuz are confusing and at times contradictory. As I stated above Tammuz was Ishtar’s brother, son, and husband. Resurrection is a rather unusual choice of a word to describe the facts surrounding Tammuz’ death and rebirth. You will no doubt want to reread paragraph 6 above. What you describe as a “resurrection” apparently occurred every single year. You might want to read Hebrews 10:10-14 which speaks of a single death “once for all” by Jesus. Furthermore Acts 13:34 intimidates that He would never die again, unlike Tammuz. 2. Summer Solstice (June 21st) =Death of Tammuz (Weeping for the dying vegetation God Tammuz) Jewish version wailing wall. (Ezekiel 8:14) Christian version Noosardel (sprinkling water on the path of God) a water festival as well as baptism symbolizing new life and rebirth. Me- You may want to reread the account in Ezekiel a little more closely. God was pointing out to Ezekiel that since the worship of the Creator was replaced by the worship of the cycles of creation (like that which was ascribed to Tammuz) then Ezekiel would see even more detestable things (see Ezekiel 8:6, 13). Let me explain some facts here. The apparent death of all vegetation in the Middle East during the hot dry summer months was explained in mythology as caused by Tammuz’s death and descent into the underworld. During that time his followers would weep and mourn his death, like this lady in Ezekiel 8:14. In the spring Tammuz would emerge victoriously from the underworld and bring with him the life giving rain. 3. Sacred marriage of Ishtar and Tammuz (Sumerian signified time of plowing) was later moved to March 21st in order for the offspring of Ishtar and Tammuz to be born 9 months later during the birth of Tammuz (Dec 21st.) Me- The significance of this escapes me. 4. Winter Solstice (December 21st.) The Birth of Tammuz. Born to the mother, lover, sister and virgin Ishtar. A sacred Tammuz tree is taken from the forest on 21st December and decorated with gold and silver. Christian version Xmas and the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary. Me- I assume Tiglath is trying to relate the idea that Tammuz was born close to December 25. Obviously, Jesus wasn’t born on December 25, the pagan origins of that date are without dispute. I don’t know a single adult Christian who believes that Jesus was born on December 25. This just proves the pagan origins of the original holiday of Christmas. Let me say for my friends out there that I still celebrate December 25 as Christmas not because of it’s pagan origins but because of what the holiday has evolved to become. This is a side issue, not worth discussing. Me still- Tiglath may want to read Jeremiah 10:3 in which Jeremiah clearly states that the worship of a “sacred” tree is “vain”. Paul, do you worship your tree? Neither do I. So you see it's actually me that is insulted when plagiarists took our ancient myths, epics and culture for their own and then have the nerve to call the immaculately conceived King Sargon a bastard and the son of a whore. Me- Did anyone on this forum ever called King Sargon a bastard and the son of a whore prior to your initial inflammatory rhetoric? Anyone? Tiglath, I doubt if anyone had ever called Sargon these names to insult you. This sounds like embellishment. My question remains either King Sargon and Jesus are bastards and the sons of whores OR King Sargon and Jesus were both immaculately conceived and born to virgins following in the tradition of the Ishtar Tammuz myth. Me- There is really no logical evidence that Sargon was conceived by a virgin. There are many more reasons to believe in the virgin birth of Jesus though. As usual I would like to start with facts. Jesus was not “immaculately conceived and born to (a) virgin following the tradition of Ishtar Tammuz myth”. The first mention of a virgin birth predated the Ishtar myth. In Genesis 3:15 we find that the word for “seed” is “zera” and means among other things “semen”. Tiglath, I want you to trust me now, I paid attention in 3rd grade health, so please trust me on this one. Women do not make “semen”. I’m begging you to believe me. If you don’t I’d ask that you check with your wife, if you even have one. OK, since no woman has “sperm” unless it is placed in her then it is impossible for this verse to come true, without divine intervention. The only way a woman would have “seed” would be if it were placed in her. We place this in our wives (some more frequently than others, now I‘m talking about you Paul, you lucky devil) but there is nothing implicit in this verse to assume that any semen in Eve was anyone other than Adam’s. Tiglath can you think of any woman who might fulfill the prophecy of this verse? Let’s see, the person must be a female. She must have seed placed in her which she can call her own; after all it says “"I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel." This “seed” of this woman will be a male (the pronoun “his” is present) and He well “bruise” Satan’s head. Anyone in history Tiglath? Anyone? Sargon? Nope. Hercules? Sorry. Confucius? Good one. Ok, this prophecy predates every single virgin birth whether Sargon, Hercules, or Confucius. As our “Guest” said “My answer to that is simply that Satan loves to counterfeit the truth with examples that look superficially the same in the quest to sow confusion or have man make the wrong choice.” Tiglath, you really should keep in mind how silly it is to believe in the perpetual virginity of this women (Ishtar); after all she was the goddess of sex. She loved sex and engaged in this activity outside of marriage numerous times. Exactly how would you define a whore Tiglath? It seems that Mary either remained a virgin until her death (Paul’s belief) or she remained faithful to her husband until his death (my belief). Either way, Mary was not a whore. Again, what is your definition of a whore? Ishtar “renewed” her virginity yearly by bading in a lake while two musicians play. She’s a virgin in name only. Kind of like John Kerry claiming to be a conservative at times. He can claim anything he wants but facts are a funny thing. You can claim Ishtar is anything you want but facts are just those sticky wickets that get in the way of logic. Darn those facts. How about a “bastard”? My understanding of the definition of the word is that this is a child born out of wedlock. Weren’t Joseph and Mary married at the time of the birth? Here is Webster’s (1913) definition “a child begotten and born out of wedlock; an illegitimate child; one born of an illicit union.” Which one of those definitions applies to Jesus? Was He begotten and born out of wedlock? Sorry. Was Jesus an illegitimate child? Sorry read Luke 2:5. They were married but Joseph had not consummated the marriage. Was Jesus born of an illicit union? Nope. Now go back and ask those same three questions with relation to Sargon. Sorry Tiglath! I would offer this piece of advice. If all you want to do is insult and not engage in serious debate move to Boston, hold another Democratic Convention, and take the platform. However, if you are interested in legitimate answers to these, ages old, questions then change your attitude and engage us in discussion not arguments. Keith --------------------- |
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