The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum

=> wm the dm...

Posted by beezlebub (Guest) - Friday, June 17 2005, 2:19:39 (CEST)
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...this post by Dm is crucial for understanding why and how they're so fucked up...also you can see why they can't afford to be confronted away from their banning buttons...also why they'll never go anywhere else but a warm fuzzy place to say these kinds of "proooves"...because they are ridiculous and can be shown to be so with very little effort...this is the propaganda they all received as babes and since it sounded so appealing to them then...made them feel they'd been misunderstood and undervalued, they cling to it all desperately....

...Somewhere earlier Peter The Rabbit had said there are two parts to being an Assyrian..one is, to be an Assyrian, the other is Christianity...then someone else asked what if he did everything right as and for Assyrianism BUT, had no religion at all...would that mean that he couldn't be Assyrian..and of course they all claim no Muslim can be an Assyrian..as Peter says, that's an oxymoron...in other words ridiculous on the face of it...but the idea of an Assyrian abandoning Ashur yet claiming to be even MORE Assyrian seems perfectly logical to him...and of course, here come Wm to put the seal of intelligence to all these turkeys....

Religion and Nationalism

Posted By: wm warda (208.187.135.221)
Date: Thursday, 16 June 2005, at 3:01 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Bravo, Mr. William Warda-It's about time!!! (David)

David:

If we had our own country it would not have mattered what kind of religion people practiced because we would have had other national attributes which would have preserved our nationality. Such as a sovereign state, government, industry, business, learning institutions, mass media, daily socialization, daily interaction and other elements reminding us of who we are.

..."who we are", is critical here...because he's going to overlook the fact that who we are had EVERYTHING to do with our religion of Ashur which, it seems, can be dumped with impunity without changing a thing about us, but Christianity must NEVER be dumped because it cahnges EVERYTHING about us...huh? You can see why these hothouse flowers have to remain under lock and key.

The reality is we do not have such institutions. For the last 2000 years Christianity and our language have helped us survive as a unique people.

...he didn't dare say the religion helped us remain uniquely ASSYRIAN. How could he...that would be ridiculous, but it's what he means to imply...so he uses the less volatile "people". But all their prooves come down to this...we are Assyrians BECAUSE we are Christians.

Because our Christianity necessitated speaking the Assyrian language it was preserved also.

...again, we owe everything in the modern era to RELIGION..and not one that is Assyrian either. because Jews spoke the same language and this language was used by Jew converts to Christianity, is "proof" that they must be Assyrian.

Religion is more than just worship. It brings people of like minded interest together on regular basis and builds solidarity between them. These attributes required that our people live in like minded communities where they could preserve their shared identity. It is not enough to just call oneself an Assyrian and do everything else wrong.

...then how can you maintain that abandoing our OWN religion did nothing to weaken us? is it ONLY Christianity that must NEVER be abandoned?

Nationalism is a new concept especially in the Middle East where historically common Religion together with Common language have defined nationality.

...then you mean there was NO Assyrian NATION?

We need to judge thing by their final outcome. It comes to reason that an Assyrian who converts to Islam will spend his time in a Mosque speaking Arabic, praying in the Arabic language, reading the Koran in the Arabic language, Commenting about Islamic teachings with his Arab friends, socializing with like minded Moslems who speak the Arabic language and learn to hate the infidel.

...fuck you. You too are intent on spreading the lie you people make up that the word infidel in the Koran refers to Christians rather than Pagans...this shows either how ignorant you are or how deceitful.

...People can be of all religions and be of any nationality...you play mix and match...if you ARE a nation then you can't be a nation of ONE religion...those days are long gone.

He will have more in common with Arabs and Moslems than with Christian Assyrians whom he would want to convert to his faith since that is what he strongly believes in.

...Muslims do not try to convert anyone. It is you Christians who have a well documented and bloody history of forcibly converting people..or making them so weak and desperate you then hope to buy them..as brother KenFuck is over there doing now.

He will marry an Arab and Moslem wife because he would have more in common with her than an Assyrian wife who will reject his religion.

...either the wires in your head are permanently crossed or you're just devious. Arabs aren't all Muslim either. Many Christians and Muslims have married and it poses no problem whatsoever...you're talking about fanatics on both sides of the fence and you all have much more in common with each other than more resonable members of your religions.

His Children would be brought up as Arabs and Moslem which would be the end of his being an Assyrian.

...utter nonsense. Seems to me moving to Chicago and living there for three generations is a much better end to Assyrians...for all your talk.

We already see how our own people who belong to a different denominations invent separate names and identities to segregate themselves from others who do not belong to their church. How Can we expect one who convert to Islam not to do the same? Calling oneself Assyrian one day and Arab or Kurd next does not do us any favor because at the end the Arab and Kurd identity will take over because they control all institutions. Being an Assyrian means standing up to what one believes regardless of what the consequences.

..then why do you all run and hide? When do you stand up to anything? You are still defining Assyrian as exclusively Christian..and that, thankfully, is an argument you can only make at your forum.

The undisputable Law of national identity dictates that it is always the members of the minority that will be driven to join the ruling majority and never the other way around. To believe that Arabs or Kurds will reject their identity and call themselves Assyrians in nothing short of a dream pipe especially when you are smoking something.

..they don't have to reject it at all...just as when Sargon conquered the Sumerians and mixed the two together..as when Hammurabi added his Amorites to the blend..just as Muhammad added Muslims from THAT desert...the end result is always stronger and healthier and more creative..also tougher. And you can see, as you say yourself that the proof is in the end result...that Muslim Assyrians went on to build one of the most magnificent cultures of any time...but especially of their day...the infusion of Islam into BetNahrain gave focus and a new direction for all the bottled up and frustrated talent and genius of the Assyrians who were increasingly uncomfortable under a Jewish yoke and belief in a Messiah...when no Assyrian had EVER thought of such a demeaning thing...Islam gave them wings and order and vision....and look what Christianity did to and for you.

Only fools will keep making the same mistakes and expect a different result.

...you mean like improving living conditions and security for Christians in Iraq by helping Western Christians to attack the country? THOSE kinds of fools?

2000 years of experience shows that when our people changed their Christianity they no longer considered themselves suraye or Assyrian because our Christianity goes hand with hand with our language, religion, identity and 2000 years of history. If these cease to matter our Assyrian identity will not exist either.

...Why then, when they "changed" their Ashurism did it NOT matter to their identity as Assyrians? How in god's name can you claim that the ASSYRIAN religion could be easily let go, but a JEWISH one must be clung to come hell or high water...what kind of sense does that make?

..your Assyrian identity ceased when your Assyrian religion ceased..just as you now claim that your Assyrian identity will cease if you abandon a JEWISH RELIGION. I should think you'd see the obvious fallacy in that notion...to take your own example: if you once abandon Ashur (where you would write "Christ")...then you are no longer Assyrian. You are SAYING "Assyrian"..but what you all MEAN is Christian.

In the short term it does not matter if you are a moslem but continue to consider yourself an Assyrian but in the long run you are udnermining the necessary attributes that make an Assyrian, Assyrian.

...not at all. Aside from dicking around and seeing to the ruin of the Christians of the Mideast, I don't see anything "Assyrian" from you. You are infatuated with Christianity and can't stand any Assyrian who isn't...to you being Assyrian and being Christian are one and the same thing..and that's just plain absurd. It would be one thing if you all REMAINED followers of the Assyrian god and were saying this about anyone who turned to another god..such as Muslims...but you ALSO turned away and found yourselves another and a Jewish god...therefore you are as guilty as any Muslim...the fact that YOU have mushed being Assyrian and Christian together is merely your passtime..it means nothing elsewhere.

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