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=> Assyrian nationalism- Phase I

Assyrian nationalism- Phase I

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Beth Suryoyo Assyrian Forum Advanced search Board index ‹ Beth Suryoyo Assyrian Forums ‹ Main Forum Change font size Print view FAQ Members Register Login ASSYRIAN NATIONALISM - PHASE I Moderators: Fred Aprim, Webmaster, Hanna Hajjar, George Stifo Post a reply 7 posts • Page 1 of 1 ASSYRIAN NATIONALISM - PHASE I Postby Ashur Beth-Shlimon » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:45 pm Dear all: Shlama Ashuaraya + Hereunder a very intellectual Assyrian person asked what I think about the following , and I would like to share it with you. This is my reply to his first question > .................Question: What about the name (Assyrian, Chaldean, Syriani) what is your stand on that? REPLY >>>PHASE I We the Assyrian people as far as I know do possess one name only and that is the ASSYRIAN name. It is a self evident that in the last one hundred years or so we never used other names but the Assyrian name. Furthermore, every single political organization was known as Assyrian ,a name that is fitting us Historically, Geographically and Physically. We are the inhabitants of upper MESOPOTAMIA which is ASSYRIA , and Assyrian name that we inherited from our ancestors who ruled the area close to 1000 years. When we say , we are Assyrians , it is clear that the only nation in the area , a case in point ,the Arabs, Persians, Turks, Turcomans, Q...s, Azeri and the Armenians that we can't be . My response to those who are skeptic about our Assyrianism that we can't trace , I will say you are dead wrong. We always exhibited our Assyrianism in every stage of history starting in the early centuries of Christianity through our scholars Tatian and Lucian of Samosata from the A.D. 200, or in the fifth century A.D. through our scholar Mar Narsai and the same in the 11- 14 centuries through other scholars who were proud Assyrians to mention, Malpana Rabba Gewarges of Arbil and Mar Abdisho Metroplitan of Soba and Armenia who were proud Assyrians. To those who claim that the Anglicans called and granted us the Assyrian name, we will say yes, they did , because our people over a hundred years ago were known as any other nations in the area/ the Middle East by their religious names. The national name which spread around the world, after of two historical revolutions, the French and the American Revolutions. For these missionaries, in order to introduce us to the world arena who we are, it was for them to use our national name which is Assyrian, such name fits us as I indicated above, because we can't be Arabs,Turks, Iranians Q....s , Turcomans or Armenians, but ASSYRIANS. So , if these people REVIVED our name and nationalism, they didn't invent that from a void! but it is a fact according to our historical and geographical grounds which is solid evidence that we are Assyrians . I don't think that there is no nation IN THE WORLD will accept to be called a name that doesn't belong to it, and that is our situation, WE ACCEPTED THE NAME because it is real and IT IS belongs to us. WHY WE REJECT THE OTHER NAMES? _________________________________________________ A case in point the CHALDAEAN and the Syriac/Aramean . At outset , some of these people think when we reject the name Chaldean or Aramean/Syriac , they think we are saying there is no such people in history . Unfortunately, we who involved in explaining our situation we NEVER DENIED the presence of the Chaldaeans or the Arameans, the only thing we said that these people were very well known in their GEOGRAPHICAL area which they occupied, and that area was not in ASSYRIA , and if the Assyrians resettled some of them or they themselves were around for instance as the ARAMEAN Bedouins who were after pasture that can't be an excuse to call ourselves Arameans. It is a self evident that the Arameans geographical area where they have kingdoms is known historically in the central SYRIA and to name , the Kingdom of Damascus and the Kingdom of Hama , the rest is not more than as we have these days those ARAB SHEIKS of Shamar, Jabbur and other Arab tribes , you can't call people of SYRIA or IRAQ as belong to the Shammari or Jabburi nations, they are not nation in the first place. And if we consider those Bedouin Arameans who were roaming the area as the ARAB Bedouin do in these days NATIONS,then what about the Assyrian Empire which controlled the whole the Fertile Crescent and even they have a TRADE centers as that of CAPADOCIA or a HEAD QUARTER of the Assyrian governor which the Israeli found recently in Israel, do you think we could call the area ASSYRIAN by nationalism! of course not, then why try to create these ARAMEANS presence in a place that doesn't belong to them in the first place , and as I indicated above their kingdoms are in DAMASCUS and HAMA , we as Assyrians will support them, but to some NAIVE and may be envy people who are and actually were MOTIVATED unfortunately by the DENOMINATION factors to interfere in our ASSYRIAN AFFAIRS which is clearly supported and promoted by our brothers from the Orthodox or the Chaldaean Rite Churches along with the Church of the East this was and is crystal clear today that nobody could deny it. In the case of Chaldaens of today, we will say that they are not Chaldaeans of the ancient , but they merely converts to be Catholics and were called by the Pope of ROME as Chaldaeans , this is a fact , because the Church of the East which was dominant in MESOPOTAMIA , after the Arab invasion during the middle of the seventh century, all the inhabitants of southern MESOPOTAMIA before 10-11 century A.D. were Arabized and Islamized, such thing is documented , the only one who survived to a degree are those who were the inhabitants of the north Mesopotamia , i.e., the Assyrians. We learn that the north of Baghdad up to Tikret ASSYRIANISM along CHRISTIANITY survived up to 15 century A.D. , but after that our people were squeezed to further north Tikrit . In the city of HADETHA we used to have a METROPOLITAN who was called METROPOLITAN D'ATHUR/ASSYRIA less than 500 years ago. MY MESSAGE TO THESE PEOPLE OF OUT HIBERNATION ------------------------------------------------- It is very clear that hate and animosity played a big role that these people to deny their true Assyrian nationalism. What I mean, is this, because these people deffer from us DENOMINATIONALLY, so we call ourselves ASSYRIANS, they have to call themselves other names, but if we were calling ourselves for instance CHALDAEAN or ARAMEANS, believe me these people in north of MESOPOTAMIA will be the first ASSYRIANS. It is tragic that their clergy with due respect most of the time played their games in dividing us, because many of them came forward as ASSYRIANS, then suddenly changed their course to be against us , such thing is also documented. I asked his Holiness Mar Dinkha about the unity discussion with other Churches which he launched few years back, he told me Ashur, in case of the JACOBITE/SYRIAC Orthodox everything was cordial and going forward, but after that everything changes, because at one point the Copts Pope Shanoda interfered and convinced them not join our Church, so as personally see it that the religious play a very drastic role. Having said that, still there are a good portion of these Chaldaeans and Orthodox Jacobites embrace ASSYRIANISM as we do, to a point many of them were PILLARS of ASSYRIANISM , while none of these call himself an ARAMEAN and he was a Chaldaen or a Chaldaean and he was an Aramean/ Syriac. It is essential to point out that the name [ SYRIAN or SYRIAC ] no matter where comes from - myself see it from ASSYRIAN- that we are included to be SYRIANS/SYRIAC too, because at one time all the people of the Fertile Crescent were called by such name, KEEP IN MIND such name WAS NOT and WILL NOT be a POLITICAL name, because IT was a religious name in the first place. In conclusion, as always I replied to these people that our name ASSYRIAN belongs to us and nobody gave it to us, but you people were named as the case of the so-called Chaldaeans who got the name from the Pope of Rome after 14-15 century A.D. and to our sister Church Orthodox , I will say you people SYRIAC is not confined to you only, but as Christians we are all SYRIACS/SYRIANS and the first who used this term SYRIAC is the British historian Arnold J . Toynbee , and the second who used it will be the Iraqi government to our people of our various denominations. Note: I am coming to an end for the FIRST PHASE, the subject will follow with the PHASE II shortly . Ashur Beth-Shlimon ...................................................................................... Ashur Beth-Shlimon Top We are who we are. Postby Michael » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:40 am Mokhebbee Akhonee Ashur Beth-Shlimon I commend your Assyrianism which is based on solid ground of history. The problem nowadays we are facing, as you mentioned in your posting “if we were calling ourselves for instance CHALDAEAN or ARAMEANS, believe me these people in north of MESOPOTAMIA will be the first ASSYRIANS”, is not a mere what am I, but what I am told to be. People, who do not call themselves Assyrians, are not being honest with themselves and they know that. I asked a through and through Chaldean good friend of mine whom I respect as a brother, a question and asked him to answer me honestly before God’s presence, and the question was, if you were to trace your family tree, which one would be easier for you to prove your family tree is from, Chaldea or Assyria? After a pause, he said “Assyria” but at the same time he said to me “Michael, after 500 years of brain busting of being a Chaldean, we can not that easily come back to our roots”. As you mentioned until 100 years ago, we all were Assyrians and denomination played no part in our identity as Assyrians. Why we need to put emphasis in one name, is it because we are more Assyrians than Chaldeans or Syriani? No, not at all, as every intelligent Assyrian would know that we all are from the same root, but the problem of not knowing ourselves “Assyrians” is not only that we will not get our full rights as a nation in Iraq, but the problem is a lot more than that. Why did Britain change the name of Mesopotamia to Iraq in 1917, after the league of nations handed Mesopotamia as a mandate to Britain? According to the laws of league of nations, Britain upon accepting Mesopotamia, it had to do provide protection and all necessary rights of the natives of the country, basically do the right thing by the natives of Mesopotamia. But instead, it changed the name to Iraq. The reason was for, Mesopotamia is one of the richest countries in the world, as well as having a heritage that goes beyond 7000 year history. If Britain was to keep this name and not change it, then Assyrians would have gained from the land, and also could have claimed compensation for every atrocity done to them, even those that would happen after that. Without the name “Assyria” we were left naked, without any claim to make, any right to ask for. Our oil is being sold by foreigners for the foreigners, our precious artifacts are being sold for millions and millions of dollars around the world, without any Assyrian seeing a cent of what belong to us. We got massacred and got nothing for it, not even an apology, yet Armeanians got what they asked for the massacre that happened to both of us at the same time. Name is not just a simple word that we can forget about. It is our whole identity, our whole being, our whole history, it includes our rights not as minority but as the sons and daughters of the land that was taken away from us. Our name is our life, our protection and our existence. Without the name Assyria, we might as well bury ourselves and die shamefully. The people who call themselves Chaldeans, they are following the politics of foreigners who want Assyria out. They who call themselves Syrians, are forgetting the fact that if they do not call themselves Assyrians, they can not claim the heritage of their great forefathers, that it truly belong to them, as Sons and Daughters of Assyria. The name Chaldo-Syrian-Assyria is not a valid name, for there is not and will not BE A NATION BY THAT NAME. So by such a name, we not only create more division in our nation, but we will not get what we truly deserve. If Chaldeans, Syrians and Assyrians who believe in this name, would be happy by just having a nice comfortable life in Iraq, without the fear of prosecution, the can have that without even using the long listed triple name, just call yourselves, Iraqis, and this would be easier. They are fighting a battle that they will not win if they are focusing on our full rights as a nation, and natives of the land. Name “Assyria”, is the key which will open the doors of, not only our full rights as natives, but also to all other claims that we can make worldwide for which we have to be compensated for. My Lord and God, Jesus Christ says “The truth will free you”. I ask every Chaldean, every Syriani and Assyrian to think about this. We are living a life of bondage and slavery where every other nation has got what they want, including Palestinians, yet we are going back more and more, why? Because we are lying to ourselves, we are not being honest and truthful to ourselves. We know the truth, yet because some church politics, we decide to turn our back against our forefathers. I say to every body, that if as God said “honor your parents” if you do not honor your forefathers and cast them aside, what good is your faith, for that would be a lie, not only to yourselves but to the Lord and God Christ who you tend to worship every Sunday. Honor your parents, does not mean deny them, but to admit to them. If I deny my parents, then who shall I say are my parents, some foreigners? Would I be honoring myself if I do not honor my parents? The truth is the life, and if you want life, you must accept the truth of who you really are, THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GREAT AND GLORIOUS CHOSEN NATION OF GOD, THE ASSYRIA. Michael Top The Assyrian Nationalism Postby Ashur Beth-Shlimon » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:13 pm Dear Michael: Shlama : I read your comments which made me very pleased to your reaction which is in some how similar to mine. In any way you raise a very important point and that naming Iraq, you are new on these FORUMS, but I did cover that many times and I will shed a light on it again. The British never used IRAQ , prior to the Iraqi independent under the Arabian Monarchy of the family of the Sheref Hussein. If you read the British historians and even officials they used alway MESOPOTMIA the name IRAQ came for the first time by the ARAB/ISLAMIC invasion of the middle 7th century A.D. and was revived again when the British installed King Faisal I as king after he was kicked by the FRENCH from Syria . The KINGDOM of FAISAL BEN AL-HUSSEIN revived that name again and that was officially after 1932 . The bottom line , the Britons have nothing to do with the name period. In conclusion, thank you again for your valuable input and looking for your future participation in our Assyrian national discussion GOD bless you and bless our Assyrian nation , Amen ! Sincerely, Ashur Beth-Shlimon ________________________________ Ashur Beth-Shlimon Top Name Change Postby Mikey » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:02 am Ashur Aziza Unfortunately I have write under different names until my account is activated. According to my studies of Era of Change, and European Modern history as well as WWI to WWII period, after the fall of Turkey in the hands of Allies in 1917, League of Nations, gave Mesopotamia and Palestine to Britain as a Mandate, and according to Era of Change, Britain decided (which was supposed to do the right thing by the natives of both countries) decided to make Palestine homeland for the Israelites and also changed the name of Mesopotamia to Iraq. That is what is exactly written in the book. I have given the book to a friend of mine, Mr. Wilson Younan, but if you definitely want me to verify that by letting you the name of the Author as well as page number etc, I will do happily. Regards Michael Mikey Top IRAQ Postby Ashur Beth-Shlimon » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:10 am This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.ssnp.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb. ... 1;t=002581 as retrieved on Nov 25, 2007 02:42:13 GMT. G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web. The page may have changed since that time. Click here for the current page without highlighting. This cached page may reference images which are no longer available. Click here for the cached text only. To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:3p ... d=26&gl=us Google is neither affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content. These search terms have been highlighted: ashur beth shlimon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A Reply my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home » You are not logged in. Login or register Discussion Board » General Forum » To my DISAPPOINTEMENT » Post A Reply Post A Reply Login Name: Password: Message Icon: Message: HTML is enabled. UBB Code is enabled. Instant Graemlins Instant UBB Code What is UBB Code? Options Disable smilies in this post. T O P I C R E V I E W Ashur Member # 1094 posted August 24, 2006 01:26 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is my habit to go through Assyrian and Iraqi Websites to read what our people are thinking and writing, and today as I opened my PC on the Kitabat.com , the first name was of Dr.Edward Youkhana Odisho's article which to be honest pleased me that an Assyrian is contributing in order to defend our Assyrian case , but to be honest UNFORTUNATELY I was humiliated and embraced that such Assyrian highly educated to write such thing which I never imagined and here what he said on Kitabat .com : والايمان بهذا الشعار يُعين في حل الكثير من المشاكل السياسية والاقتصادية والاجتماعية. خُذ على سبيل المثال قضية كركوك اهي كردية او تركمانية او عربية او اشورية؟ وفق مفهوم الشعار فان كركوك عراقية قبل ان تكون اشورية قبل الميلاد او تركمانية قبل احصاء 1957 او عربية جبراً تحت حكم صدام او كردية اليوم. لا شك ان كركوك هي موزاييك الوطن العراقي ويجب ان تكون نموذجاً لوحدة الوطن. As you see that " Kirkuk is an Iraqi city before to be ASSYRIAN before B.C. or to be a TURKOMAN city after the 1957 census.., " If we try to trace the name ' IRAQ ' according to the region or the world history , we will find that the name came with the Arab invasion and occupation of the area in in the middle of the 7th century A.D. , and the area was covering the region around the Persian Gulf which included southern parts of Mesopotamia and south east of Iran, and to distinguish these two IRAQS, the Arabs called the Arab Iraq and the Ajami Iraq. The name IRAQ was revived by the Arab king Faisal Ibn Al-Hussein when was kicked by the French from Syria to be installed king of Mesopotamia by the British , and the name Iraq became that referring to the area which was carved according to Sayks-Picot treaty between the British and the French to be new kingdom of King Faisal Al-Hussein. If you trace the British correspondence in the years 1915 and after, you will notice that the British refer to Iraq as MESOPOTAMIA and never used Iraq period, until the the proclamation of King Faisal . It is important to note that the city of Kirkuk , historically was in ASSYRIA and never been in the Arab Iraq period, furthermore for the sake of argument even though let us agree for a moment that it is an Iraqi city, that Iraqi name didn't came to surface until after the 7th century A.D. and KIRKUK city was not included at the time. and the bottom line what I would like to say that the name ' IRAQ ' is very new historically and came with the Arabs after the middle of the seventh century A.D. , while ASSYRIA came to a Holt 612 B.C. or close to 1300 years to the Arab invasion. Ashur Beth-Shlimon ___________________________________ Contact Us | The Syrian Social Nationalist Party Website SSNP Online. 1996-2003 All rights reserved Powered by Infopop Corporation UBB.classicTM 6.5.0 Ashur Beth-Shlimon Top what do you think of British policies Postby mick » Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:00 am Ashur, Can you tell me what you think of the British policies which were implemented in Iraq since the beginning of the 20th century till after WWII. What do you think where Britain stands when it comes to our rights as Assyrians in Iraq? Regards Michael mick Top The ASSYRIAN NATIONALISM - PHASE II Postby Ashur Beth-Shlimon » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:27 pm Mick: Please , read the Assyrian Nationalism - phase II , then you will get a reply on your question, because this portion will shed more light to what I am going to elaborate and will help you understand better to what I am going to write, thanks, Ashur ___________________ Ashur Beth-Shlimon Top Display posts from previous: Sort by Post a reply 7 posts • Page 1 of 1 Return to Main Forum Jump to: Who is online Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests Board index The team • Delete all board cookies • All times are UTC - 5 hours Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group --------------------- - BACK TO INDEX - REPLY - QUOTE - EDIT - DELETE -

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