The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Muhammed And The Christians...with quotes for Don

Muhammed And The Christians...with quotes for Don

Posted by pancho (Guest) - Wednesday, February 14 2007, 23:53:28 (CET) from 189.162.17.43 - dsl-189-162-17-43.prod-infinitum.com.mx Mexico - Windows XP - Internet Explorer Website: Website title:

Muhammed And The Christians The way our fundamentalists talk about it you’d think the Christians of BetNahrain or the Christian Roman empire which ruled them, at the time of Muhammed, were all tea and sweet cakes…the truth is another matter….just as now the Christians nations who fabricated excuses to steal the wealth of Iraq, starving children as a matter of “acceptable policy”(refer to speech by Secretary of States Madeleine Albright), murdering thousands of people who never did them any harm, warn us that Muslims are on a “rampage of terror”, when it is them, again. So too back then were the Christian empires terrorizing people wherever they wanted to and our own mad sects poking each others eyes out over ridiculous niceties of a Jewish knock-off religion. It stuns these fanatics to learn that the Christians of BetNahrain welcomed the Arabs with open arms as their liberators from Christians-gone-wild. No wonder Muhammed, and his followers, who ever had respect for Jesus and spoke of him admiringly (far different than the vile curses Christians heap on Muhammed) said that Christians had misused and abused, or misunderstood the message of The Book and he was come to correct their errors. When contrasting the behavior of the two groups you can see what he meant…always remembering that Muhammed and his followers were fighting for their lives…as the Christians were for empire and wealth… so this bunk about how Muhammed started out “in violence”, is nonsense…it was Christianity itself which was born in human sacrifice and cannibalism, as “symbols”…and what an apt choice it was too…and was then rolling in bloodshed and violence. The following quotes are from Will Durant’s “The Age Of Faith, a 1050 page volume with bibliography and notes to match, which yours trooli has read at least 15 times over the last ten years and I still haven’t been able to digest it all. In fact my original copy came apart at the seams and this second one, which I’ve lugged back and forth to Mexico and from the desert to the ocean in my Bronco and airplanes is giving signs of going the same way. Durant is one of those “dumb scholars” who has nothing to say to our Christian blockheads, because “we know the truth”. I’ve already shown elsewhere the more historically accurate reason for the decline of Christians in BetNahrain…a combination of selfish monasticism, a seeking after personal salvation at the expense of family and children and nation, a mania for deliberate martyrdom which swept communities at times, plus a veneration for virginity and chastity coupled with a loathing of woman and marriage were bound to reduce their numbers, as the Fathers of The Church realized too late. Plus Islam was appealing to many Christians tired of being abused by their clergy and miked by their emperors. Many went over willingly..and many more converted to Islam to receive the, temporary lifting, of the poll tax. It’s all there in black and white, attested to by real historians, whom you can call Kurds, if you need to…if your religion demands of you to be an absolute and total idiot. Add to that the fact that the Muslims and Jews accepted women from all races, with the Arabs happily marrying or taking as concubines women of BetNahrain, who both practiced polygamy and even legitimized the children of their concubines while Christians would only marry Christians, if at all and only one at a time… and you can see it wouldn’t take long for the Christians to begin to disappear…which the church, in its embarrassment has turned into slaughter and forced conversions by way of explaining what became of them…this is understandably “hateful” to our people of the church to hear…but it doesn’t mean that I, or the historians who write these books are filled with hate for Christianity…we simply value the truth and know that no spiritual life can be based on lies and hatred…such as evangelicals feel for all those who simply pass them by. Also some among us think we see the beginnings of another religious extermination as was done to the Jews only 60 years ago and so the stereotypes and lies and misinformation about Islam, as once against Judaism, being put out in advance of more wars such as the one in Iraq must be resisted and fought…with simple truth wherever possible. Chapter III, page 46-47 “Once triumphant the church ceased to preach toleration; she looked with the same hostile eye upon individualism in belief as the state upon secession or revolt”. “The heresy was in many cases the ideological flag of a rebellious locality seeking liberation from the imperial power; so the Monophysites wished to free Syria and Egypt from Constantinople; the Donatists hoped to free Africa from Rome; and as church and state were now united, the rebellion was against both.” “Orthodoxy opposed nationalism, heresy defended it; the Church labored for centralization and unity(that word, mine), the heretics for local independence and liberty.” Note: the “liberty” which the heretics wanted was like the “freedom” the Romans who killed Caesar wanted...it wasn’t freedom as we understand it, it was freedom for the nobles to continue their private wars whereas Caesar wanted to end the civic disruption which was weakening the empire…so too the “liberty” the heretics wanted was the freedom to kill each other in spite of the imperial police and later the Arabs who forced our battling Christians apart. “We cannot interest ourselves today in the many winds of doctrine that agitated the Church in this period—Eunomians, Anomeans, Apollinarians, Macedonians, Sabellians, Massalians, Novatians, Priscillianists; we can only mourn over the absurdities for which men have died, and will.” Note: these heresies, as he mentions elsewhere, were attempts by people to throw off the yoke of Rome and its centralized Church…had Rome not forced an empire on them they never would have bothered with such absurdities…but since Rome was intent on imposing its absurdities as a way of controlling men’s souls…they retaliated in kind. From all the violence this religion spawned, once it became dependent on the state and its armies to protect it and its property, came the heresies which multiplied till people seemed to be mad for religion, when it had nothing at all to do with a god and spirituality, or love and peace…but war and resistance. “A tradition of fierce sectarian hatred was handed down with pious persistence, and left no united opposition when (670) the Arabs came.” Note: this hints at the real conditions in BetNahrain and Syria when the Muslims arrived. It wasn’t milk and honey…an orthodox church in Rome was trying to force the people into orthodoxy, they were fighting back with heresies and rebellion, against Rome and Constantinople and against each other…as vying political parties will…ahem. “Meanwhile Pelagius was stirring three continents with his attack on the doctrine of original sin, and Nestorious was courting martyrdom by doubts concerning the Mother of God. Nestorious had been a pupil of Theodore of Mopsuestia (350-428?), who had almost invented the higher criticism of the Bible. The Book of Job, said Theodore, was a poem adapted from pagan sources; the Song of Songs was an epithalamium of frankly sensuous significance; many of the Old Testament prophecies supposedly referring to Jesus alluded only to pre-Christian events; and Mary was the Mother, not of God but only of the human nature of Jesus. Nestorious raised himself to the episcopal see at Constantinople (428), drew crowds with his eloquence, made enemies by his harsh dogmatism, and gave them their opportunity by adopting the ungallant opinion of Theodore about Mary. If Christ was God, then, said most Christians, Mary was “theotokos”, god-bearing, the Mother of God. Nestorious thought the term too strong; Mary, he said, was mother only of the human, not of the divine nature in Christ. It would be better he suggested to call her the Mother of Christ…Pope Celestine I stirred by a letter from Cyril(Archbishop of Alexandria, mine). Called a council at Rome (430), which demanded that Nestorious be deposed or retract. When Nestorious refused, an ecumenical council at Ephesus (431) not only deposed but excommunicated him…Nestorious was allowed to retire to Antioch; but as he continued to defend himself and demand restoration, the Emperor Theodosius II banished him to an oasis in the Libyan desert. He survived many years; at last the Byzantine court took pity on him and sent an imperial pardon. The messenger found him dying (451). His followers withdrew to eastern Syria, built churches, established a school of learning at Edessa, translated the Bible, Aristotle, and Galen into Syriac, and played a vital part in aquainting the Moslems with Greek science, medicine and philosophy. Persecuted by the Emperor Zeno, they crossed into Persia, opened an influential school at Nisibis, flourished under Persian toleration, and founded communities in Balkh and Samarkand, in India and China. Scattered throughout Asia, they survive to this day, still denouncing Mariolatry.” Chapter X, page 190 “Once Syria and Persia (which included Iraq, mine) were securely held, a wave of migration set in from Arabia to north and east, comparable to the migration of Germanic tribes into the conquered provinces of Rome. Women joined in the movement, but not in numbers adequate to Arab zeal; the conquering males rounded out their harems with Christian and Jewish concubines, and reckoned the children of such unions as legitimate. By such industry and reckoning the “Arabs” in Syria and Persia were half a million by 644.” Note: While Christian males were lining up to enter monasteries or were living atop pillars or in caves and at the bottom of shafts, to prove worthy to enter paradise, their women were eagerly, maybe desperately, seeking virile Arabs to mate with and be cared for. The Bedouin from Arabia did not build the Great Islamic Empire and conquer half the known world…the children they fathered from the Assyrian and other women, plus the reinvigorated Persians (and Assyrians) did…but inspired now by the masculine Muslim religion which alone could match and defeat the militaristic Christians… Chapter X, page 188 “Syria and Mesopotamia contained Arab tribes that found no difficulty in accepting first the rule and then the faith, of the Arab invaders…Byzantine oppression of Monophysites, Nestorians and other sects had alienated a large minority of the Syrian and Egyptian population, even some of the imperial garrisons.” Speaking of the Arab liberators Durant says: “..they were not barbarians. “be just”, ran Abu Bekr’s proclamation; “be valiant; die rather than yield; be merciful; slay neither old men, nor women, nor children. Destroy no fruit trees, grain, or cattle. Keep your word, even to your enemies. Molest not those religious persons who live retired from the world, but compel the rest of mankind to become Moslems or pay us tribute. If they refuse these terms, slay them”. note: this caution to his troops to act humane, in war, contrasts sharply with yahwe’s admonition to Joshua to return and kill every Midianite man, woman, child, and animal. It’s in their own bible, yet when you point this and so many more barbarisms out to them , our Christians say we hate them. Before one is aghast at the violence still contained here let’s remember that a few years earlier Heraclius had ordered all Jews in Byzantine lands to convert to Christianity or be killed…some converted but most were killed. For all their claims of the violence propounded in the Koran, this is its basic teaching: Chapter IX, pages 183-184 “Righteousness is not that ye turn your faces to the East or to the West, but righteousness is this; whosoever believeth in God,a nd the Last Day, and the angels, and The Book, and the Prophets;and whosoever, for the love of God, giveth his wealth unto his kindred, unto orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer, and to the beggar, and for the release of captives, and whosoever observe prayer…and, when they have covenanted, fulfill their covenant; and who are patient in adversity and hardship and in the times of violence; these are the righteous, these are they who believe in the Lord.” Note: The first thing that strikes us is that our Christians, the worst sort…would make bad Muslims as well. Let’s remember that the Ku Kluk Klan and the Aryan Brotherhood and the Nazis all professed Christian beliefs…so that every religion has its thugs…but what our Christians are desperately trying to do is convince the world that all Muslims are thugs…while hiding their own, they think. If we’re going to insist that every act of Christian barbarism was committed by someone who completely misunderstood Christ, then let’s say the same for the murderous acts of Muslims and not say that these criminal Muslims are the typical sort and are conforming to the teachings in the Koran. If there are violent passages in the Koran there are ten times more in the Old Testament…and what is the New Testament but a fulfillment of the promise of the Old? What is it but a close up look at only one, sweet and totally innocent man, a child of God, whose father hounds him to a cruel death to cover his own mistakes? Not content with that his followers are told to eat the victims body and drink his blood, an act which for centuries half the Christian world was convinced occurred “in the flesh”...that what began as bread and wine, was turned INTO flesh and blood by a priest so that the people were indeed eating the actual body and drinking the real blood of Christ…is this not barbaric, especially to someone not of this religion? We must also remember that Fil, David, Michael, Gaby, Peter, Fred Aprim and a host of these heroic patriots all ran…and would keep running if you ever dragged them back to their “homeland”. They are confirmed cowards all who hide behind Christ and yet urge other Christians, whom they then smugly label the “wrong kind” to do their killing for them. Speaking of the Koran, Durant writes: Chapter IX , page 175. “Unlike the Bible, it is proximately the work of one man, and is therefore without question the most influential book ever produced by a single hand.” Note: This is before Aprim’s book was printed of course. You can just hear Fil’s balls dropping on Ms Jone’s head at this. Speaking of Muhammed Durant, a Christian, writes: Chapter VIII, page 174 “If we judge greatness by influence, he was one of the giants of history. He undertook to raise the spiritual and moral level of a people harassed into barbarism by heat and foodless wastes, and he succeeded more completely than any other reformer; seldom has any man so fully realized his dream.” Chapter VIII, page 151 “Having killed and succeeded his father, Sheroye, crowned as Kavadh II, made peace with Heraclius; surrendered Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Asia Minor and western Mesopotamia; returned to their countries the captives taken by Persia…” Note: This occurred a few years before the Arabs liberated those lands. All in all the Romans and Persians had been fighting across BetNahrain for several centuries. The Romans had certainly forced Christianity on all that region by then…as they forced it on the rest of their empire beginning 300 years earlier…for they believed in order above all and that unity of rule could best be accomplished by a single unifying faith…as we still do and are still trying to force the issue, 2000 years later. In an important section, to me personally, because I had a battle over Armenia coming to Christianity with Paul Yonan a while back, with him and a friend of his insisting that the Romans had no impact on Armenia whatsoever and that the Armenians did that thing no one ever did; leap willingly and en masse into the Church… Chapter VII, page 143 “Through forty years Shapur fought a long line of Roman emperors. Julian drove him back to Ctesiphon, but retreated ingloriously; Jovian, outmaneuvered, was forced to a peace (363) that yielded to Shapur the Roman provinces on the Tigris, and ALL ARMENIA (emphasis mine).” Note: knowing the Romans we know they imposed their new imperial religion on the Armenians, as well as their provinces on the Tigris…we know it because that was the main reason Constantine made Christianity the official Imperial religion…not because he was won to Christ (he killed two sons and a wife), but because Christianity makes good slaves, or loyal citizens, and college students. The Armenian Church, like every other church in the countries conquered by Rome had to invent a myth about that one monk walking over the hill whose teary-eyed tale of Jesus induced the people to toss their own religions on the trash pile. It is a lie…every time. On the same page: “The conversion of Rome and Armenia to Christianity gave the old struggle a new intensity.” Note: Coupling both Rome and Armenia in the same sentence as having “converted” tells you exactly how Armenia was converted. It would be strange indeed if the Roman people converted through force and on pain of death, while the Armenians “embraced” the same religion with open arms and en masse. In truth the population of both countries was forced into Christianity and all record of the actual process wiped out, in Armenia and in the consciousness of most Christians. Speaking of the Code of Justinian Durant writes: Chapter V, page 114 “The Eastern nationalist heretics whom it flayed opened their arms to the Moslems, and prospered better under the Koran than under the Code.” Note: This affirms once again that life under Christian rule, something our Christians have fantasized into a Golden Age, was filled with persecution over trifles, abuse, state-sanctioned violence, individual sectarian violence, ruinous taxation and more...and that the Arabs were received and indeed acted the part of liberators for, on top of their more humane rule, they settled and lived among the population, helping it to grow and flourish for the welfare and enjoyment of all, as had Sargon’s and Hammurabi’s tribes before them, rather than bleed it from afar as the Roman Christians were doing. Chapter III, page 62 “In Constantinople hardly a sign of pagan worship remained. Christianity itself, however, was torn with conflict; Arianism was still powerful, new heresies were always rising, and every man had his own theology. ‘This city”, wrote Basil’s brother, Gregory of Nyassa, about 380, ‘is full of mechanics and slaves who are all of them profound theologians, and preach in the shops and streets. If you desire a man to change a piece of silver he informs you wherein the Son differs from the Father; if you ask the price of a loaf…you are told that the son is inferior to the Father; and if you inquire whether the bath is ready, the answer is, the Son was made out of nothing.’ In the reign of Theodosius I the Syrian Issac founded the first monastery in the capital; similar institutions rapidly multiplied; and by 400 the monks were a power and a terror in the city, playing a noisy role in the conflicts of patriarch with patriarch, and of patriarch with emperor.” Note: When Martin Luther began the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, the popes warned that soon every ten men would interpret scripture to suit themselves and there would be a babble of sects splitting the Church…and they were mostly right…except the church itself had asked for it. At the very beginning of this process Rome fought long and hard to wipe out all heresies, all variations on Christianity to enforce one, official view…and people resented it. These earlier multiplying heresies, like the later Reformation and the sects it unleashed, were merely the efforts of people to resist being swallowed in an empire that was no longer satisfied with owning their bodies but wanted their souls as well, to more perfectly and completely subjugate them. By the time Frederick The Great declared for religious freedom in the 18th Century, it was too late, the habit of sectarian infighting, as an expression of personal freedom of choice, was set in people’s minds and attitudes. It had become the normal way of doing religion, so that even with the new freedom to believe as one wished…people still found meaning and purpose in harassing each other privately, taking over the role of those who’d sought conformity over them by now demanding it of their neighbor and everyone in the street. Chapter III, page 49 “To perfect the confusion, the majority of the Christians of Syria and Egypt refused to accept the doctrines of two natures in the one person of Christ. The monks of Syria continued to teach the Monophysite heresy, and when an orthodox bishop was appointed to the see of Alexandria he was torn to pieces in his church on Good Friday.” Note: The orthodox bishop wasn’t butchered for his views on Jesus, he was killed because he represented the imperial government, the centralized government which sought to confirm its rule by determining men’s religious beliefs and forcing all into a conforming loyalty both to the crown, now buttressed by faith. “Thereafter Monophysitism became the national religion of Christian Egypt and Abyssinia, and by the sixth century predominated in western Syria and Armenia, while Nestorianism grew in Mesopotamia and eastern Syria. The success of the religious rebellion strengthened political revolt; and when the conquering Arabs, in the seventh century, poured into Egypt and the Near East, half the population welcomed them as liberators from the theological, political, and financial tyranny of the Byzantine capital.” Note: The half that didn’t welcome them was too involved in religious disputes, as would happen to the Muslims later when the Mongols were able to pick off jealous princelings one by one, to mount any sort of unified resistance. And this has been ever our problem…even when we think to fight or join together for almost any purpose, we begin by fighting among each other first to determine that age-old question of whose views of a Jewish sect are correct and therefore who the generals will ultimately be, while the troops are shooting each other…not willing to put down this hoary chestnut, not even with death and dismemberment staring us in the face, and so remaining fragmented and easy to do away with sect by sect or buy out. And we just did it again…and are off on another round of “Whose Jesus is the REAL Jew Messiah?”. It seems in our determination to prove this point above all else, we must die and go to heaven and finally settle this burning issue, because the quest for this particular ‘truth” makes us singularly unfit for life on earth…especially as a “nation”, of all things. With this much turmoil, strife and hatred between brother and brother, we have a civil war and a religious and sectarian war going on at the same time, without even our own bit of land to shoot it out on, but we must do it among strangers, on their airwaves, in front of their cameras and in their courtrooms. And if we do get to heaven, what will we see but the Jewish god, laughing his head off, quoting you all that line made famous by this pagan…”Assyrians my arse Ha Ha Hoo Hoo”! Was Muhammed, in distant Arabia and hearing from Jew and Christian of these murders and dismemberings and divisions in the name of unity and all in the name of Jesus too, that far off when he said Christians were getting the message all wrong and someone outside their circle of madness would have to remind them of the word of God? While it’s true, as Theodore said, that Christianity absorbed and transformed pagan myth and rituals, many of them ours, the one outstanding feature of it, which is not love or self-sacrifice as these existed well before and in abundance in BetNahrain and elsewhere, is the promised Messiah and his role as the one who will do for you what you cannot or will not do for yourself...as for instance “unite” Assyrians…something they now admit will take a miracle. This one, central and defining feature of Christianity, derived from the Hebrews, is as foreign as foreign can be to everything we know of the Assyrians. For them to have adopted this belief, as we claim, without force where not even the majority of the Hebrews who knew Jesus in the flesh were willing to…and supposedly adopted it en masse, defies all logic, reason and historical evidence..it does, however, make the Church look good…so it must have been a “miracle”…right? For them to have even considered it means they’d been reduced to the level of competency and desperation of the ancient Hebrews…and in that there is no consolation nor anything to be pleased by, but rather to be ashamed or, at the least, feel sorrow for them that they ever fell so low as to lose all hope of doing for themselves…as they still seem to suffer from. But the coming of Islam changed all that and gave them hope, weapons, tools and pride again. Look at them now, taking on the world’s two most brutal and therefore “powerful” nations, fighting with sling shots against giants…giants of weaponry but pygmies in culture…and that old Assyrian culture will triumph in the end…they are paying an enormous price to keep our honor…but keep it they shall…much to the discomfort of our own Christians as they sit and wait for Issaiah. --------------------- - BACK TO INDEX - REPLY - QUOTE - EDIT - DELETE -

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