The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: And what you know is "THE TRUTH", of course...

Re: And what you know is "THE TRUTH", of course...
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Thursday, May 29 2008, 3:45:23 (CEST)
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MiniMe wrote:
>You are still avoiding a simple question that helps clarify a concept by stating that there are “millions and millions of people” who believe a certain thing is implied in Christian teachings...

..it is only "implied" to you...to them it is FACT...go ask them, don't take my word for it. I am dealing with what THEY consider facts...not what you think about it, or about anything else.


The fact is, opposite those “millions and millions”, there are still “millions and millions” who don’t understand the teaching in the same way because they do not take them literally...

...I told you, I'm not interested in those who don't teach this.


Why you prefer to mention only the “millions and millions who do” is understandable, because I know the others will not serve your intentions.

...for the same reason that when you go to church you go to the church that serves YOUR PURPOSE and not to the one that doesn't. You are focusing only on those who DON'T teach this because "it will not serve your intentions"....when entering a discussion with someone you enter into THEIR topic...if you have a topic of your own, go elsewhere or, when the one topic is settled, bring up your own...I am speaking about one thing, you intrude with something totally unrelated.
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>>So which is it now? Christianity's teachings or THEIR BELIEF of what THEY think it teaches?
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>“...you are still playing games. I never said anything about their teachings being wrong or right”

...of course you did....you said they are mistaken for taking the words of Jesus literally, that he COULDN'T have meant ACTUAL flesh and blood. Your efforts to confuse or jumble things up are a waste of time...I know what I'm talking about...and I know what you're trying to do.
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>Who is playing games and who said anything about “wrong or right”? I am merely trying to point out a very clear DIFFERENCE between a “Written material” and people’s UNDERSTANDING of that written material...

...not to THEM..and it is THEM I am talking about. Not you and your beliefs. You read the words of Jesus and get a DIFFERENT meaning entirely...that's fine. But when you try to tell THOSE people that they are WRONG for saying it is REAL flesh...then you are telling them they are wrong...and I'm not doing that. You can be right, for you..and they are right, for them....you can believe whatever you want to, and they can believe whatever they want...I am merely saying that THEIR belief that Jesus actually meant REAL flesh and their willingness to TEACH this to children has HARMFUL EFFECTS on those children and ultimately on the rest of us.


But you avoid the question by “assuming” I said something I never did... So, in your mind, is the a difference between what is written and what is understood from it? Remember, we are not talking about Maths here... There are no formulae to guide people to a specific result.

...I pass no judgement on the accuracy of their beliefs...YOU do that...only now you're pretending you never did. These are your games and have nothing to do with me. Catholics and Orthodox people believe Jesus meant ACTUAL flesh....they take his WRITTEN word to be the ACTUAL truth of his SPOKEN word...since they believe the Bible is the word of God. That's the end of it as far as my issues are concerned....the NEXT thing I do is comment that I think these things that THEY BELIIEVE have harmful effects on children when taught to them by the people who believe these are the actual SPOKEN and WRITTEN words of Jesus...that this was clearly his INTENTION...as quoted, as relayed in the Bible and passed on by Church officials...your quibbles about this and that are meaningless...just like you.
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>“...not when the issue was the CONTENT of those teachings. If Jesus had said, "it is REAL wood"...I would agree with him in so far as believing that he MEANT real wood. I would NOT, as you do, argue with him and say he did NOT mean real wood,”
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>Your “Assumption” that he meant “wood” is based on you PRECONCIEVED ideas... Whether he mean wood or not is beside the point.

...boring. That was an example, stupid. Jesus SAID Flesh....and YOU want to tell me that he didn't MEAN Flesh but only BREAD...you are welcome to that interpretation or any other you choose to make...has nothing to do with anything...think what you want...YOU are not the subject of my posts about this issue...which is what REALLY bothers you...from using my name to feeling hurt and then angry that I don;t consider you a human bean worth two cents has bothered and troubled you for years...your blaring inadequacies become unbearable to you when I ignore you...and I do ignore you. If I had no USE to put you to I wouldn't bother with you at all.
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>“...All I said, all along, is that THEY believe these things to be true. How you can seriously argue with such a simple statement of fact I don;t know.”
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>You’re arguing with your own self because I NEVER said they don’t believe that... All I am saying is that there is a difference between what one believes and what is written..

..to YOU...but not to THEM. To Catholics and the Orthodox the written word in the Bible is EXACTLY the same as the SPOKEN word of God...especially when he is quoted...do I have to teach about grammar as well? As a member of one of many Protestant sects, you believe, as they all do, that it is valid for individuals to INTERPRET the real meaning behind the words of God...which is the reason you keep boring us with your repititions...that is a matter of YOUR BELIEFS, but it has nothing to do with THEIR beliefs..and it is THEM that I am paying attention to, not you. I'm sorry it disturbs you so much but surely you can find a friend somewhere who will pay attention to you and care what your beliefs are etc.

Why is that so hard for you to understand? I guess it comes with LITERAL thinking, right?.

...boring.
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>“And my initial statement, which was a very simple one, is correct...that millions of Christians hold this belief and that ONLY Christians do so...”
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>False!.....Not all Christians do so.. That is a FACT... But I understand why you conclude that... Do you?

...YOU brought up "all" Christians, not I...I said millions and millions do...and that is a FACT...you're the one who introduced "not all"...I never said "all".
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>“in contrast to all other modern religions NONE of which teach cannibalism and vampirism....that was all I said, weeks ago...and it was a true statement. “
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>Again, your conclusion is based on you preconceived ideas about what the written words mean....

...I make no judgement as to its meaning...it isn;t my place or my business. I have no interest in understanding the fine points of Christian doctrine or what 5000 Christian sects think is the truth, or anything else that they think...I am merely taking millions of them at THEIR word...the way THEY explain and understand it...and I am commenting on the EFFECTS of their beliefs on children...I have no opinion as to those beleifs AS BELIEFS..matters not at all to me...all I care about is that millions and millions, but not all, Christians are teaching crimes to children and I believe this helps explain the bloody history of Christianity...I don't care for the nuances that seem so fascinating to you...all that matters to me is that millions DO BELIVE THE WORD TO BE LITERAL.

So the statement is only true to YOU and to those that have the same preconceived ideas... Makes sense?

...I have no opinion one way or the other about Catholic or Orthodox teachings...and they do not agree with you that they have "preconceived" ideas...ask them and they will tell you, all those millions, that they use the EXACT meaning of the words as the words were MEANT to be understood...ask them...you can argue with them about preconceived and anything else you'd like...but not with me. My only interest is that THEY believe the words to be actual and real...that the words refer to eating REAL flesh and drinking REAL blood...they would not agree with your assessment of their beliefs...and I don;t care.

All I care about is that THEY believe these words to be real and actual...my only interest is in assessing what harm these beliefs pose for young children.

Look what they did to you.



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