The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Assyrian, Syrian, Asori

Re: Assyrian, Syrian, Asori
Posted by AssyrianMuslim (Guest) - Tuesday, February 5 2008, 2:33:14 (CET)
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Shlama19 wrote:
>AssyrianMuslim wrote:
>Arameans never had an empire but their language and culture influenced the region to much and it even put an end to the Assyrian language and culture. As for Assyria, yes it was an empire and a mighty one on top of that, but just as mighty as it was it fell hard to where it almost disappeared from history. Now we come to the Syria name again. It was brought by the Greeks and you say they referred to the entire area, but what does that have to do with you today some 2,500 years later?
>
>What's your point? the English also enfluenced their language and culture on so many places out there, it does't mean anyone who speaks English is of an English origin.

The point is that you people are full of it and that no one is purely descended of anyone. The ancients were mixed and God knows what you all are mixed with over the centuries. Bottom line is, just as you call yourself Assyrian only after less than a 100 years ago, there are others who call themselves Chaldeans(actually much more than you few) and those who call themselves Arameans. I have no problem with people calling themselves what ever but it is you people who try to attack the others and insist that they are false. Well, you then have to answer to what happened to the Chaldeans and Arameans who both were around after the fall of Assyria.


>
>The name Syria is connected to the name "Suraya", that's why it has something to do with us today.

Well why do you people get pissed when others mistaken you for Syrian since it is Assyrian?
>
>Well I said it above and I agree this is a fact after all. They were mixed and cared less about blood but it was about nation and empire rather than blood. But what about the so called "Assyrian Nation" of today? you think that this is the same as that?
>
>Yes, the Assyrian nation of today also mixes, but not with other religions, only with Christians, and the biggest evidence is our mix with the Armenians who happened to be the only other major Christian group in the region. But even if the modern Assyrian nation did not mix and live like their ancestors it does't really mean anything, do the Germarns still act like a bunch of barbarian warlords like their ancestors? do the Central Americans still cut people's heads and offer human sacrifices like their Aztec and Mayan ancestors? no, so just because we don't act like the ancient Assyrians it does not mean we cannot call ourselves Assyrians.

Lol I know Assyrians who mixed with Kurds, Arabs, Turks, Armenians, Russians and others, but I forgot your Assyria is the British invention of the Anglican church.

>Well, just as you cited Syriac Fathers as your evidence, I thought I will show you that for the couple of Syriac Fathers who used the Assyrian name there were are others who used "Arameans".
>
>And I agreed to them, so what's your point? are you gonna agree with all the Syriac fathers or not?

The point is that they too have a right to be Aramean, Chaldean or whatever else.

>I already showed how "Suraya" has been used against non Syriacs. I know many Assyrians who use "Suraye" when speaking of foreigners and it used to throw me off because I thought they meant "Assyrians" but that was not the case. You can argue up and down all you want and even if "Suraya" is derived from "Asuraya" as you like to believe, it still don't indicate that they were using to mean "Assyrians". They were using it to mean "Christians" and that is all they were before the Anglicans decided they could use them and name them "Assyrians".
>
>This is a clear lie, we do not call other non-Assyrians "Surayeh", I don't know who you've been around but I lived my life as an Assyrian for my entire life among all of our churches and not once have I heard anyone of us from any another non-Assyrian by this term.

It is a "clear lie" because it messes with your prejudices that's why. Isn't it obvious? I live in Atlanta, Georgia and the few Assyrians here that I have met use "Suraye" when referring to Christians in general. The same was the case with Assyrians I knew in Europe. I have family members that use it as clearly a Christian thing and then go on to assume like fools that any Arab is a Muslim but that is where they are off. They may very well be wrong but they use it that way and they do not mean it to be Assyrians exclusively. "Aturaye" is used for Assyrians exclusively and that is recent. I have met Assyrians from all churches too so chill out.

>That may be so, but it still don't mean they were aware or using it to mean "Assyrians". They in fact proved they knew nothing of the ancients apart from what they were reading in the Old Testament. It took the discoveries made by westerners to teach these "Assyrians" of today to learn of the ancients and their history. What is the answer behind that?
>
>If they knew nothing they would'nt be fasting the 3 day fast of the Ninevites, you are insulting our people as if they were stupid and did not know anything, of all Christians our ancestor were among the most knowledgeable if not the most knowledgeable.

Lol Oh my Lord now you gonna bring the fasting of Jonah(as)? So all others that acknowledge the fast are Assyrians? What about people who acknowledge other observations? They knew of that from the Bible. Is this your proof after 2,600 years?

>That is what you think and that is what most people think. Dr. John Joseph spend a long time doing research and came to find out that it is not so but we can each choose to believe whatever we like.
>
>Dr.I don't know who can do his research day and night, the bottom line is I challanged you to go register to an Armenian forum of your choice and ask the Armenians what they call Assyrians, I challange you on this and I'll wait on it.

You must think others who do not agree with ur prejudices are just stupid huh? What Aramenians are you talking about the ones who barely know their language? Are you going to learn English from some American from the Ghetto or will you go the experts and sources? Many Armenians don't know much of their language, yet you wanna go ask them what "Asori" means today? of course they may be confused. The Dr "You don't know who" is a professor from a real University, his book is of scholarly level and not from some village priest of yours are some modern Armenians who really wouldn't even give a shit about you or I. In fact I know many Armenians from Iraq who were very hostile to ur Nestorians or I should say you new "Assyrians" and did not allow their people to marry Assyrians. So, you can choose for yourself on what to believe. You want to go talk to Armenians and I tell you that you may wanna consider going to experts and real sources not your bull shit which you were born into.


>There's million researchs out there, some favor one side and others favor the other side, the only way to settle it is to ask the people themselves and guess what? there are many Armenian forums out there, so man it up and pick one.

Lol Again same as above. There are always other opinions and views. It's best to go to experts who know their language. If I wanted to know Arabic, I wouldn't rely on some street Arab from Basra Iraq, but I would go to the experts of the language and authentic sources.


>Ok cool, but you just said it, a Kurd called them "Asuri". They were not calling themselves "Asuri" or "Ashuri".
>
>I said the Kurds called them Suryani, but Sharaf Khan mentions them as Asuri, you don't wanna take this as evidence suite yourself.

Evidence for what? So some Kurd calls them "Asuri" that makes you the granson of Ashur Banipal? So if I cite you one who called you guys by other names, will you settle for just that?


>You want us to listen to priests? Haven't we done that forever? It's time we use real sources and be unbiased. Do you read books apart from those which comply with your prejudices? gurantee you don't.
>
>It's funny how you mention Syriac priests when they claim to be Arameans yet now you tell me not to listen to priests.

I mentioned them to make a point but I forgot that your one of those types of Christians like your buddy who has sexual fantasies with monkeys and you appeartly missed the point or maybe i should be more specific. Just as you quote Syriac church fathers, there are many more who called themselves by other names and, in fact, long before you became "Aturaye" which the Brits created your "nationalism".


>Telling me not to listen to priests is like me telling you not to listen to your muslim scholars and Mohammad's laws.

Muslim scholars don't tell us what we are nor did Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Islam is a way of life and not a particular ethnic group. I don't take my knowledge of my ancastry from a Muslim scholar because that's not his job.
>
>I have and I know many that have used it. It's pronounced "Nosturnaye" and I have family members that use it the same way they use "Suraye" for "Christians". I have friends here in my city whom I visit almost daily, they use "Suraye" to mean "Christians" regardless of whom they are speaking of. Now, they may be confused, but they are using it as Christians and not to mean "Assyrians".
>
>I'd like to meet the people who call themselves Nesturayeh because I have seriously yet to meet anyone call himself by that term, i don't know what people you've been haning around.

Well you just need to travel outside your little circle that's all. My father's side of the family call themselves "Nosturnnaye" and I know many others that do as well. It wasn't until 1976 that "Assyrian" was added to your church.


>Does it matter what name people choose to use? Are you seriously not getting the point? You think using names is the real issue here? The issue is this "Assyrian Nation" which suddenyly exists and this is what we are talking about. Of course there are descendants of the ancient Assyrians and just as there are of the Babylonians, Arameans, Chaldeans, Amorrites and whoever else was there, but what does that have to do with you and others claiming this "Assyrian Nation". Where are the rest of the ancient people who lived and were around after the fall of the Assyrians? Where did they disappear to and only the Assyrians survived today as the few Christians of Iraq and other areas who just now began learning of the ancients and calling themselves "Assyrians".
>
>Apparantly it does matter when we call ourselves Assyrian but not so much when you call yourself Iraqi, guess what, the Brits made you, you are a British creation, that's your Iraqi nation, just like how you call us a British creation you are also a British creation.

First of all, I do not even call myself an Iraqi but oh well you just prejudged again. But the difference is that Iraq is on the map, it is recognized and a ligit nation today. Iraqis are proud of their ancastors whether it be the Babylonians, Assyrians or whoever.


>The other thing is if we would like to call ourselves Assyrians what is your problem? should'nt people be free to call themselves whatever they want? is this the freedom that Islam teaches you? is this how you respect human rights? you make it seem as if we want this name all to ourselves, not at all, you wanna be an Assyrian go ahead, we'll be happy if you start calling yourself an Assyrian, but to sit there and pretend as if Ashur Banipal is your grandfather and you dissmiss the others as a British creation is a very stupid thing to do.

Sure you can be free to call yourself whatever and who is stopping you? But that is not really the issue here is it? You trying to be slick huh? Did I say Ashur Nanipal is my granfather? No I didn't but that is comments made by your people and not me. Did I say that we can't call ourselves "Assyrians" ? Again, the answer is No. What you people are doing is not calling yourselves a name but you are using a name in order to achieve a dirty agenda and it has nothing to do with ancient Assyrians but everything with Christians. I don't mean to say one can't be a Christian but this type of Christianity is fueled by bigotry, hatred, and racism of the worse kind. Just keep in mind that Islam offers human rights that no other system can offer. While your Christians were killing eachother, Islam rescued and libirated the Nestorians and other Christians sects which were declared "heretics" by Rome. But there is something about you people and that is that you people are so determined to always cause damage from within. Your patriarchs and the Syriacs just as other minorities governed themselves under Islam. They were free to practice and preserve their culture when just a century before the Romans were trying to do them as they did other heretics.


>The last time I checked there are groups who call themselves names yet they have less evidence or clain to the name they chose, heck look at Israel today, they have white Russian Jews who claim to be the decendents of Moses and Abraham, if they can call themselves Jews then we can call ourselves Assyrians and be proud of it, this agenda of yours and Pancho (He's on a low level) is absurd, you sit there calling our culture and religion non-sense yet your own religion and culture is full of errors and no better also.

Lol, you people are something else. You think everyone is just stupid don't you? You think we will fall for your bull shit that you people play by pretending as if you just wanna live as Assyrian Christians in peace with others and no problem? That is not the case. I care less what you call yourself. I am more proud of the ancients than you ever will be but I know the difference between you and me. I am not saying I am more of an direct descendant of the ancients but my Assyrian is not based on Christian denomination or what other crap you people teach. Last but not least, Even if you were direct descendants of the ancients and only you people alone, what do you want from the world and especially from the Arabs and Kurds, a cookie? What makes you think you people are better than others such as the Native Americans, the Aborigenes or Africans?



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