The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Assyrian, Syrian, Asori

Re: Assyrian, Syrian, Asori
Posted by AssyrianMuslim (Guest) - Tuesday, February 5 2008, 23:09:53 (CET)
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Shlama19 wrote:
>The point is that you people are full of it and that no one is purely descended of anyone. The ancients were mixed and God knows what you all are mixed with over the centuries. Bottom line is, just as you call yourself Assyrian only after less than a 100 years ago, there are others who call themselves Chaldeans(actually much more than you few) and those who call themselves Arameans. I have no problem with people calling themselves what ever but it is you people who try to attack the others and insist that they are false. Well, you then have to answer to what happened to the Chaldeans and Arameans who both were around after the fall of Assyria.
>
>Ok AND? you're still not making a point, so there are others who call themselves Chaldean or Aramean, what are you trying to get at? are they supposed to be legit and we're not?

No I am not saying their the ligit ones but they too have right to claim to be descendants of the ancient Chaldeans, Arameans or whatever and that is the point.


>If you have no problem with people calling themselves whatever than I take it you accept me for calling myself Assyrian, if not than you're clearly flying in circles here.

I never had a problem with you calling yourself Assyrian and I even call myself that. But the point is claiming something for political reasons is absurd. I care less what your religion is and that has nothing to do with being Assyrian.


>Well why do you people get pissed when others mistaken you for Syrian since it is Assyrian?
>
>We don't get pissed, we correct people because the matter fact is we are not Syrian the same sense as modern Syrian (Which is why it changed to Syriac), having said that if the Brits did not create modern Syria we would be ok if people called us Syrians, back in the day when people said Syrians they always meant it for us Assyrians, Syria did not exist as a country, it was Bilad al Shaam and a person from there was a Shaami, not Syrian.
>
>Lol I know Assyrians who mixed with Kurds, Arabs, Turks, Armenians, Russians and others, but I forgot your Assyria is the British invention of the Anglican church.
>
>I believe in the records that the term Assyrian was used before the arrival of the Brits, but if you're gonna be ignorant about it than fine, whether the Brits created or not it exists in a group of people and you cannot deny it just like how the Brits made you Iraqi.

It was used very very seldom and not the way it is used now suddenly. The Britis did not make me Iraqi because I am not from their but my ancastors are from there.


>The point is that they too have a right to be Aramean, Chaldean or whatever else.
>
>Sure, they can call themselves whatever they like, but if you believe in their rights to call themsevles whatever they want are you gonna believe in our rights to call ourselves Assyrian and claim to be descendants of Assyrians?

Sure why not, but is that title exclusive for Christians only and is Assyrian the only title that is authentic from among the ancients or can and are Chaldeans and Arameans equally recognized. Because last time I checked, it is the small group of fanatical Assyrians who want the rest to become Assyrian no matter what. I believe in the rights of all peoples no matter what they are.


>It is a "clear lie" because it messes with your prejudices that's why. Isn't it obvious? I live in Atlanta, Georgia and the few Assyrians here that I have met use "Suraye" when referring to Christians in general. The same was the case with Assyrians I knew in Europe. I have family members that use it as clearly a Christian thing and then go on to assume like fools that any Arab is a Muslim but that is where they are off. They may very well be wrong but they use it that way and they do not mean it to be Assyrians exclusively. "Aturaye" is used for Assyrians exclusively and that is recent. I have met Assyrians from all churches too so chill out.
>
>I have not seen it, and for the record we use "Chrisyaneh" or "Msheekhayeh" when we call non-Assyrians Christians, not "Surayeh".

Yes, I have heard "Chrisyane" "Msheekhaye" and "Suraye". A perfect example was when I was visiting Chicago. The employe in the store was an Assyrian who lived in Spain and I asked him if there were "Suraye" in Spain, he answered that Spanish were "Suraye" and I then corrected it by tasking him if there were "Aturaye" there. I seen it a lot. Another personal friend of mine who is also an Assyrian Christian he refers to his Egyptian friend as "Suraya" and I asked him what that was suppose to mean that he is Assyrian from Egypt and he said no "Christian" from egypt. So whether it is wrong or not, it is outhere and it exists among our people.


>Lol Oh my Lord now you gonna bring the fasting of Jonah(as)? So all others that acknowledge the fast are Assyrians? What about people who acknowledge other observations? They knew of that from the Bible. Is this your proof after 2,600 years?
>
>Johah is one, Akitu is another just because you're being too picky.

People in California celebrate haloween so what does that make them?

>You must think others who do not agree with ur prejudices are just stupid huh? What Aramenians are you talking about the ones who barely know their language? Are you going to learn English from some American from the Ghetto or will you go the experts and sources? Many Armenians don't know much of their language, yet you wanna go ask them what "Asori" means today? of course they may be confused. The Dr "You don't know who" is a professor from a real University, his book is of scholarly level and not from some village priest of yours are some modern Armenians who really wouldn't even give a shit about you or I. In fact I know many Armenians from Iraq who were very hostile to ur Nestorians or I should say you new "Assyrians" and did not allow their people to marry Assyrians. So, you can choose for yourself on what to believe. You want to go talk to Armenians and I tell you that you may wanna consider going to experts and real sources not your bull shit which you were born into.
>
>Lol Again same as above. There are always other opinions and views. It's best to go to experts who know their language. If I wanted to know Arabic, I wouldn't rely on some street Arab from Basra Iraq, but I would go to the experts of the language and authentic sources.
>
>Ahhh so the Armenians don't know their own language but your Dr.Joseph is so knowledgeable in their language right? if this is not being biased I don't know what is.

I knew you were going to respond this way but you missed the point again. Just because someone is Armenian, that don't mean they are experts in their language. Most of them don't even know their language properly so you think they actually know the difference between "Asuri" and "Asuristant". What John Joseph did was go to the experts of the language, to their texts and not some treet guy. I think that an Armenian would careless about an Assyrian and his name anyways to know exactly the difference between the two.


>Fine, we will get a hold of smart intelligent Armenians who TEACH the language at the college or university level and we'll ask them, agree? can you man it up and accept this challange? don't be afraid if you're so sure that "Asori" does not mean "Assyrian" in Armenian.

They can go argue with the other experts of the language who made such claims. You can bring them I really careless. But it's funny how after 2000 years you have proof for your Assyrianism expect for asking a foreigner what they call Assyrians while you clowns knew nothing of the ancients except for what you were reading in the Old Testament.


>Evidence for what? So some Kurd calls them "Asuri" that makes you the granson of Ashur Banipal? So if I cite you one who called you guys by other names, will you settle for just that?
>
>I did not call myself the grandson of noone, I'm just saying that why would some Kurd in the 16th century call us "Asuri"? can you explain it rather than dismiss it?

They called people other things too so what's the point. Hitler called Jews "Christ killers" and my African American friends call me negro and even tell me that I am black so what does that prove for me, that I am black?


>I mentioned them to make a point but I forgot that your one of those types of Christians like your buddy who has sexual fantasies with monkeys and you appeartly missed the point or maybe i should be more specific. Just as you quote Syriac church fathers, there are many more who called themselves by other names and, in fact, long before you became "Aturaye" which the Brits created your "nationalism".
>
>Ok, and many of them called themselves "Athurayeh" long before the arrival of the British, I guess since you accept all of our other church fathers you'll accept them too right?

Sure, just as the others have a right to call themselves whatever they want and not just Assyrians.

>Well you just need to travel outside your little circle that's all. My father's side of the family call themselves "Nosturnnaye" and I know many others that do as well. It wasn't until 1976 that "Assyrian" was added to your church.
>
>The church NEVER had the title Nestorian in it period, and people don't call themselves Nestorayeh just in the same sense that Syriac Orthodox don't call themselves Jacobites.

It was there before 1976 and it was only then that "Assyrian" was added.

>First of all, I do not even call myself an Iraqi but oh well you just prejudged again. But the difference is that Iraq is on the map, it is recognized and a ligit nation today. Iraqis are proud of their ancastors whether it be the Babylonians, Assyrians or whoever.
>
>Ok so what are you? if you're not Iraqi what do you call yourself? don't tell me you say you're Assyrian lol, after all this bull crap in trying to disprove us and you're calling yourself an Assyrian all along? this would be the one of the BIGGEST hypocrisies I've seen.

I am from America so I am an American today. I was born in Germany and my parents are from Iraq. So whether I call myself Assyrian, Iraqi or whatever it really wouldn't make a difference but I do not claim the name exclusively for myself or say that I am direct descendant of Ashur Banipal or that some how the world owes me something for it.


>Sure you can be free to call yourself whatever and who is stopping you? But that is not really the issue here is it? You trying to be slick huh? Did I say Ashur Nanipal is my granfather? No I didn't but that is comments made by your people and not me. Did I say that we can't call ourselves "Assyrians" ? Again, the answer is No. What you people are doing is not calling yourselves a name but you are using a name in order to achieve a dirty agenda and it has nothing to do with ancient Assyrians but everything with Christians. I don't mean to say one can't be a Christian but this type of Christianity is fueled by bigotry, hatred, and racism of the worse kind. Just keep in mind that Islam offers human rights that no other system can offer. While your Christians were killing eachother, Islam rescued and libirated the Nestorians and other Christians sects which were declared "heretics" by Rome. But there is something about you people and that is that you people are so determined to always cause damage from within. Your patriarchs and the Syriacs just as other minorities governed themselves under Islam. They were free to practice and preserve their culture when just a century before the Romans were trying to do them as they did other heretics.
>
>Our agenda is to get our rights as people and live free whereever we live, our agenda is also to be recognized as Assyrians because this is what we want to be called, your agenda on the other hand is to destroy such things because you're not too happy that 99% of our people follow Christianity, I bet if 99% were muslim and calling themselves Assyrian you would welcome that and root for us would'nt you? well sorry, that's not the case.

Not true at all. Who doesen't want to live in peace and unity, and why would I want to destroy what you believe to be? You people destroy yourselves and others in the process. I care less whether your a Muslim or a Christian. If some Muslim came and told me he was a direct descendant of the ancient Assyrians and demand independence or special treatment for it, I would laugh at him too. He can have his human rights as all citizens but not more than what others get in the country. Remember it is you who is the biggot not me. You been bringing up Islam and Muhammad(pbuh) when this topic had nothing to do with it. So don't confuse me for you, son.


>Don't worry though, our modern politicians don't care much for religion (I don't care much for religion myself, I think people who follow texts who were written more than a thousand years ago word by word blind), and to set the record straight I think of myself as Assyrian before Christian, my Christianity is quite simple, I just try to live it as a way of life through prayers and fasts, unlike Muslims I don't claim that my book is a perfect book when in reality it's not.

Yes I claim my book is perfect and I got the proof for that to satisfy myself. That's your choice what you choose to believe. I don't care about religion either because Islam is not a religion but my complete way of life. But that's another issue.


>Lol, you people are something else. You think everyone is just stupid don't you? You think we will fall for your bull shit that you people play by pretending as if you just wanna live as Assyrian Christians in peace with others and no problem? That is not the case. I care less what you call yourself. I am more proud of the ancients than you ever will be but I know the difference between you and me. I am not saying I am more of an direct descendant of the ancients but my Assyrian is not based on Christian denomination or what other crap you people teach. Last but not least, Even if you were direct descendants of the ancients and only you people alone, what do you want from the world and especially from the Arabs and Kurds, a cookie? What makes you think you people are better than others such as the Native Americans, the Aborigenes or Africans?
>
>What do we want from the world? two things, first recognized as Assyrians and second freedom.

Who doesen't we all do and who in Iraq isn't suffering right now? I remember visiting Iraq and spending time there before the wars. The Christians had great lives in Baghdad and wherever else. And in the past under Islam, the Syriacs again had self control and freedom. Muslims had 1,400 years to get rid of you if they wanted to. Hell all they had to do was step out of the way and let the Byzantines get them but they didn't.


>You're sitting here listening to some Assyrians talk non-sense on the internet as if they're gonna declare Assyria tommorow so you're taking it out on the entire nation, this is not what we want, our REAL goal is set by some of our political parties in the homeland (Assyrian Democratic Movement), we want to live in a free united Iraq as a recognized group in our own region and be able to live with freedom practicing our own culture, our region is not Assyria, it's part of Iraq, is that so much to ask for?

No it's not too much to ask for at all. We should all live in a free united Iraq whether Christtians Shiites, Muslims, Arabs, Assyrians and whoever else. That is my point as well and I agree with you on that. Maybe I was taking it out on you instead. Anyways, good work as always. Take care.



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