The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: God is NATURAL????

Re: God is NATURAL????
Posted by Arrow (Guest) - Wednesday, March 7 2012, 14:28:20 (UTC)
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Don`t just say things to say things...we`re actually thinking and expending effort...don`t think that time isn`t precious, or that by writing so much we mean it isn`t

Thank you for dedicating some of your time and effort to spread the knowlege, truth and awareness over the internet.

how is God a natural event? And how is a pig not? [b]

Anything within the universe has a material cause or explanation. Humans, for example, can be explained by the Darwinian model. If we go back 13.7 billion years, we find that the universe, as we know it (the observable universe that is), may not have existed. Therefore, A conscious prime mover is being invoked to explain the origin of the universe. If the universe had a beginning, then it is possible that there was a creator.

But as Anonymous (and Hawking) suggest, it is possible that the universe did not have a beginning, and therefore there is no need for a creator. If that is the case, then even if a supernatural being exist, there is no reason to revere him simply because he did not contribute anything to the creation of the universe (in other words, we will have existed with or without him)

A pig is within the universe. It can be explained by material causes that are within the universe. It vanishes when the universe vanish and it did not exist when the universe did not exist.

[b] I asked you prove his existence

I saw him yesterday. He sends you his regards. He also told me to tell you that he exist.

>The Vietnam war is very recent. How about we go back further in time.

...depends far back in time...depends on whether there are corroborating sources or only one witness..also depends on the evnt

Exactly. Witnesses and written records are often our primary source for hitorical information.

Assume we found a hundred different documents (2,000 year old), each written with different hadwritings. In each document, the author asserts that he saw a miracle. Would you believe it? It could be a conspiracy.

if it is fantastical and goes against all we know of natural law, we have right to eb suspicious

Suppose a miracle did actually happen, and you saw it. What then would be your reaction? Naturally, you will tell everyone. But what if you were asked to provide a proof? You would if you could. But how? You will never be able to prove it. People who are closest to you, who trust you, might believe you.

What if several people saw it? Cross interrogation may help, but it is possible that you all agreed on the details of the story. Therefore, it is not a proof. One has to actually be there to witness the event first hand.

But even if you were there, you may doubt yourself. "What if I am schizophrenic?" you might say. "What if all this was in my head?". So even if a miracle did happen, there is no way to prove it, not even to yourself.

Which brings up the question: what is proof? How can we prove proof? We could be a brain in a vat. Senses are merely electic singnals within the brain. What if we are in the year 6,000 and everything we see and hear are being simulated by a computer?

it is natural to walk on water? When`s the last time you did it? Or saw it done?

The question here is whether a creator exist or not. If he exist, then he, as a creator is able to defy the law he himself created. It is not natural for men to walk on water because they did not create the laws of nature, they are subject to it, and therefore they are not in control of it.

you can`t tell the non-believer that HE must prove the NON-existence of Gods

I have never challenged you to prove his non-existence. If I did, show me when.

don't think we don't notice that you are highly selective in which parts of which posts you answer

What makes you think that I think that you don't notice? Some sentences summarize an entire idea or paragraph, so I select it. Sometimes I want to focus on certain ideas and leave the rest for later, and sometimes I simply have no comment or answer.

the burden of proof lies with those making fantastic claims

Those who made the claim died thousands of years ago. I am simply believing it.

Your position is that since I can't "disprove" the existence of God, he MUST exist or MIGHT exist

I never said that. Maybe someone said that to you before. Not me.

which only goes to show you what God can do to your mind...and it ain't pretty.

What did atheism do to people's minds? Are atheists more successful in life?

I think I'm justified in calling for an ambulance.

Are you sure the doctors are not theists?

GENESIS is your idea of an explanation of how it got here "in the first place"?

No. But here is what the Nobel laureate physicist, Arno Penzias, said about the origin of the universe: "the best data we have concerning the Big Bang, are exactly what I would have predicted, had I nothing to go on but the five books of Moses, the Psalms, and bible as a whole".



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