The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: God is NATURAL????

Re: God is NATURAL????
Posted by Arrow (Guest) - Monday, March 12 2012, 10:50:40 (UTC)
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once someone admits the "need" for a prime mover, or designer, or gardener, we´re back at God

God forbid!

there is no God simply because the people who SAY there is, can´t prove it

Scientists discuss multiple universes. There is no way to prove them.

> I was trying to say that anything that goes on within the universe must have a material explanation.

...you don´t know that it MUST...you can presume all you want to.

What? You mean some things might not have a material explanation?!

you refuse to discuss the probabality of my pig

I'm not in the pig business anymore. I deal only with kosher food.

If there were flying pigs, or any kind, on Mars..what would the universe look like? See how by substituting just one word you all of a sudden "grow up" and realize this is silly?

No. I don't see anything. Pigs are an inappropriate analogy. You see:

1. Anything that had a beginning must be caused by something other than itself
2. The universe had a beginning, therefore it must be caused by something other than itself

> If there is a God, then what would the proof look like?

... let him step before my eyes or the eyes of anyone I trust

You said you will not believe in a miracle even if you saw it with your own eyes. How will you believe in God if he appeared to you? Who do you trust?

If you saw a miracle, you will suspect that there is something wrong with your mind. But why don't you also suspect that there is something in your mind that is causing you to not believe in a miracle even if you saw it with your own eyes? What if you were suffering from Delusional Disbelief Disorder?

Arno Penzias was comparing scientific observation with what is written in the bible. It is not a matter of belief. There is also MIT physicist Dr. Gerard Shroeder who wrote a book concerning this subject.

...what they BELIEVE is what they believe.

I told you it is not a matter of faith or belief. Those are scientific facts.

According to bible, the universe was created in six days. But time changes depending on where and when you are situated in the universe. Genesis makes it clear that it is not using the earth as a reference point. Any physicist will confirm that a million million seconds on earth are equivalent to roughly one second from the perspective of the Big Bang.

If we consider the age of the universe and convert it to the Big Bang time scale, we will get six days. According to this clock, the sun was formed on the fourth day, life (Cambrian explosion) began on the fifth day... and so on. Thus, scientific observation coincides accurately with the Genesis narrative.

There's a lot more in the bible than you think. Anyone can read it, but not anyone can understand it. Nahmanides was a prominent 13th century Rabbi. He had nothing but the Torah. After studying the book of Genesis, he came up with the following conclusion:

“... at the briefest instant following creation all the matter of the universe was concentrated in a very small place, no larger than a grain of mustard. The matter at this time was very thin, so intangible, that it did not have real substance. It did have, however, a potential to gain substance and form and to become tangible matter. From the initial concentration of this intangible substance in its minute location, the substance expanded, expanding the universe as it did so. As the expansion progressed, a change in the substance occurred. This initially thin noncorporeal substance took on the tangible aspects of matter as we know it. From this initial act of creation, from this ethereally thin pseudosubstance, everything that has existed, or will ever exist, was, is, and will be formed”

Hence, the Big Bang.

Do you finally get it?

No.



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