The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Is Their a Political Solution?

Re: Is Their a Political Solution?
Posted by pancho (Guest) - Friday, February 9 2007, 0:28:28 (CET)
from 189.162.18.63 - dsl-189-162-18-63.prod-infinitum.com.mx Mexico - Windows XP - Internet Explorer
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Don wrote:
>"189.162.21.199 - dsl-189-162-21-199.prod-infinitum.com.mx Mexico”
>
>;) Don't worry, even if you were in America still and your taxes weren't going to enrich the pockets of Mexican bureaucrats, your taxes would be going to this stupid war and to enrich the pockets of American bureaucrats and corporations.
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>Just so you don't feel like your Mexican tax dollars went to waste though, I will say that we have always said that we are not Nestorian and that is b/c Nestorus accepted our dogmas, not the other way around. I'd show you the proof, but you'll dismiss it as "syriac whatever." I guess I'd have to find some Islamic text...I remember Watt talked a little about it, I'll have to look.

..oh come on! We taught NESTORIOUS? How is that the world`s historians have all misssed that one but a bunch of boys grown in the church know the truth of it? Honestly!
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>Here, read this if you have a chance. This is from his book called, Marganita (The Pearl), written in A.D. 1298 by Mar Awdishu of Suwa (Nisibin). It is an ACOE handbook and contains many of the Church's beliefs and reasons/explanations for its tradition. From Part 3...Chapter 4 (Translated to English By His Holiness Mar Shimun Eshai - Nora Al Senduqeh):
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>"The Third confession which professes in Christ two Natures, two Qnume, one will, one sonship, one authority; is called Nestorian. As to the Easterners, however, because they would not change their true faith, but kept it as they received it from the Apostles, they were unjustly styled “Nestorians”, since Nestorius was not their Patriarch, neither did they understand his language; but when they heard that he taught the doctrine of the two Natures and two Qnume, one will, one Son of God, one CHRIST, and that he confessed the orthodox faith, they bore witness to him, because they themselves held the same faith. Nestorius, then, followed them, and not they him, and that more especially in the matter of the appel­ation “Mother of CHRIST”. Therefore when called upon to excommunicate him, they refused, maintain­ing that their excommunication of Nestorius would be equivalent to their excommunication of the Sacred Scriptures and the holy Apostles, from which they received what they professed, and for which we are censured together with Nestorius, as shall appear in the following chapters.”

..what you described first is the Monophysite heresy, not Nestorian..Nestorious concerned himself with denouncing Mariolatry...not the two natures of Christ...that was the Monophysites whose founder was Eutyches...in the fifth century..JESUS I`ve had to learn this crap just to carry on these conversations...it`s a good thing we wren`t VooDoo folowers!!!

..like I said, the church is no source for serious history...unless you want to discuss the history of the Shroud of Turin maybe?
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>Nestorus did not give us this faith. It was given to him b/c his teacher was Theodore of Mopseustia while he studied in Antioch in Syria. Though there was Roman/Greek influence there in the area of Syria, the teachers of this line of thinking were not Roman/Greek (as they had their own dogmas). Nestorus did not give us his ideology, but even if he did...the closer wording of what the ACOE believes in is in Bawai the Great's writings - a man far away from Western influence. That is another reason why it is BS to say we all accepted the term “Nestorian”…yea maybe some uninformed people of today.

...we have Always BEEN KNOWN AS nESTORIAN..AND THOSE WHO WEREN`T WERE CONFORMING TO THE bYZANTINE RITE...THEY ARE ALMOST THE SAME THING EXCEPT FOR THE LANGUAGE...SORRY FOR THE CAPS, BUT YOU REALLY TAKE THE CAKE SOMETIMES..NOT ONLY do you people take credit for sliced bread but you take credit for Roman heresies as well!!!
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>And about being the Church being called "Assyrian" Church of the East...internally we always knew it as that. Mar Dinkha only added the title when Saddam's Baath Regime began to spread fundamentalist Arab nationalism...he knew we had to assert ourself.

..oh..is that what you`ve done...assert yourselves. Sheesh!!! How do you manage to get around carrying such a load of hornswaggle?

Far before 1960, Mar Shimun Eshai and his predecessor, Mar Shimun Benyamin both referred to it as that [Assyrian]. In a letter written in Nicosia, Cyprus (where he was in exile) in 1933 to all the "christian" churches, Mar Shimun Eshai (the Catholicos Patriarch of the Assyrians before Mar Dinkha) wrote an appeal asking for help. In that letter you see some of the following statements:

...and this all means something? The long and the short of it is that no Christiansa can claim to be Assyrians exclusively...and that`s what you all do, dress it up in "history" all you want to.
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>"...makes it incumbent on me Spiritually, as the Head of the Assyrian Church of the East, to broadcast, alas, a desponding appeal to all the Christian Churches to come to the aid of the Assyrians in Iraq..."
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>"This is one of the darkest hours in the history of the Assyrian Church and People."
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>"The Assyrian case is now being considered by the League of Nations and I beg for any support that you can give in the matter for which the Assyrian Church and People would be cordially grateful."
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>Go back father than a hundred years and you will see Arab and Kurdish sources saying the same thing. There was a Kurdish author (I forget his name) who wrote a book entitled, Sharafnameh, in which he talks about us. If you can read/understand the main Kurdish dialect or Farsi you might be able to find it.
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>Beyond that, Fred, you are on your own.

..thank Ashur...thank you for this discourse...would you kindly give me the history and evolution of the Easter Bunny next...I`m all ears.



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