The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Just Kidding...

Re: Just Kidding...
Posted by Toma Deekis Hariri (Guest) - Sunday, May 27 2007, 12:24:17 (CEST)
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pancho wrote:
>I appreciate your input and the time and energy it took to write what you did...however I feel it needs to be pointed out that neither you nor I, as most of our nationalists, are scholars or valid historians. I know you think it doesn`t matter, that it`s enough to "know what I know"...to believe what you were told because our parents would never knowingly lie to us...and they didn`t...they didn`t know any better either.
>
>Sexist and Racist people have the same problem; they were handed a world-view and their, more or less, exalted place in it by their beloved or feared parents, reinforced by the Church and other institutions...and it is almost impossible for them to ever change...they too have the certainty you express and can even come up with loads of "proves" to back them up.
>
>It`s fine, like I said before, to say you know what you know because you know it and there`s no need to study anything, especially anything that challenges your cherished beliefs...but that`s just the problem...no one serious takes us seriously. We are patted on the head, patronized, told to go play "Assyrian" in the corner and not bother the "grown ups" while they manage the world.
>
>Not until we can match the scholars argument for argument and proof for proof and theory for theory can we hope to establish our claims anywhere but in the privacy of our social clubs...every layman you talk to and manage to convince you are a real Assyrian only needs to read or speak with experts in the field to realize that he or she was misled by your enthusiasm...you WANT to believe all of this and will do anything to keep on doing so...Dr Joseph is sort of telling you you are illegitimate by birth, and that`s hard to swallow...but it might be the truth...the question becomes; how much to do you value truth, for its own sake, regardless of what it does to your fondest wishes and beliefs.

TDH: With all (proper &) due respect to my beloved parents, if I or any person for that matter, had been content with what they had taught us as kids, then I'm afraid humankind would have been stuck in the stone age, and never evolved. Its this openness, flexibility and willingnes to learn that has me even entertaining the thoughts and theories of those on "the other side" of things, i.e. Professor Shamsaddin Megalomattis and John Joseph. I'll tell you one thing, it wasn't my parents who taught me "Easter" came from Ishtar, nnd that as well as Xmas are really Assyrian holidays that were always celebrated....only later was Jesus tacked on to these old traditions, to help ease the convesion of these "new believers", as they made that (somewhat seamless) transition. We all (our people today) should know how the ancient Assyrians loved to incorporarte other religions and add it to their own. So yeah, its safe to say that I'm thinking on my own two feet here.

I will agree however, that I am the furthest thing from a historian. I happen to either be presented with, or come across information that I make sure is well cited before I come to any conclusion.

The problem with these 2 professionals that I've been referring to by name, is that they do not keep it consistent and I believe their swiss-holed cheese position is laughable at best. They offer up many valid points, which, Im afraid nullifies itself with their lack of consistency and/or double standard/hypocritical stance they convey. What I meant by their "selective history", is they seem to disregard any historian that does indeed refer to the Assyrians/Babylonians post 612 fall of the empire. While I contend that our Chadean/Babylonian/Assyrian mesopotmaian people became pretty much a non factor as far as being a world power politically, this fact does not mean that they ceased to exist. What these two in particular always either minimize or fail to mention, is how the temple of Ashur was rebuilt on several occasions, by the Persians and destroyed by Sassanid king Shapur I (241-272 AD). This is obviously hundreds years after the infamous Assyrian fall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assur

Here are just a few other sources that the staunch Assyrian deniers fail to acknowledge:

Dr. Brinkman also makes mention that the Romans captured Nineveh, which they called Ninus, in 115 BC and again in 200 AD when they set up the province, which they named Assyria.The temple of Nabu at Nineveh was also repaired in the first century AD. Assyrian, Aramaic, and Greek inscriptions have been found in Nineveh, dating to this time. Kalhu was also resettled and the temples rebuilt.Assur became a great and prosperous city again and the temple of Assur restored. The inhabitants, though, had now lost the idea of a ziggurat as a religious building and began to use it solely as a watchtower.All the gods of the Assyrian pantheon were still being worshipped 800 years after the fall of the Assyrian empire.[54] This is backed up by esteemed archaeologist and historian Georges Roux in his book Ancient Iraq.[55]

Between the second century BC and third century AD, authors Patricia Crone and Michael Cook state in their book Hagarism[56] that,

“Assyria… had been left virtually alone by the Achaemenids and Seleucids; condemned to oblivion by the outside world, it could recollect its own glorious past in a certain tranquillity. Consequently when the region came back into the focus of history under the Parthians, it was with an Assyrian, not a Persian let alone Greek, self-identification: the temple of Ashur was restored, the city was rebuilt, and an Assyrian successor state returned in the shape of the client kingdom of Adiabene.”[57]

Georges Roux, the author of Ancient Iraq[58], mentions that after the introduction of Christianity into Assyria, “We know that some of the ancient temples were restored, that Ashur was worshipped in his home town, that a cult was rendered to Nabu in Borsippa until, perhaps, the fourth century AD.”

Roux further states that, "After the fall of Assyria, however, its actual name was gradually transferred to Syria. Thus, in the Babylonian version of Darius I inscriptions, Susa f, Eber-nari ("across-the-river," i.e. Syria, Palestine and Phoenicia) corresponds to the Persian and Elamite Athura (Assyria). Besides, in the Behistun inscription, Izalla, the region of Syria renowned for its wine, is assigned to Athura.” (Izalla or Izla / Izlo is the southern part of the Tur-‘Abdin region in which is the famous monastery of St. Eugenius)

much more here http://www.nineveh.com/WhoAreTheAssyrians.html <very well cited article

I've tried to engage Shamsaddin Megalomania man several times but he's failed to oblige. What's funny is, all I have on my side going for me is just a few sources I'm calling him out on to acknowledge, and common sense.... he seems to be afraid of that much. Never once did I insult the man, either. Where is their confidence? What about a debate scenario, where those who deny the Assyrian link and history can challenge the pro Assyrian side? Since they took it upon themselves and went out of their way to create their theories, why not take it another step further and challenge the Assyriologists, etc? From all indications and impressions I've come across in that regard, the ones who deny the Assyrian link are the ones who SHY AWAY from being confronted, or challenged on a scholar level.

What those seemingly anti-neoAssyrian professors ALWAYS fail to acknowledge, is how the ASSYRIAN TERM is much more than a single ethnic group. They fail to understand, or point out I should say, that the Assyrian term was encompassing of all peoples within the Assyrian empire, (let alone the heartland of Assyria people we are referring to) as if the Assyrian influence and power was an overnight thing like the Mongol rule. Its this minimizing of Assyria that raises eyebrows of those not buying into their BS. While they gladly point that Aramean became the language of Assyrians and the middle east, what they CONSTANTLY FAIL to point out is that the Assyrians ALLOWED AND WILLINGLY INCORPORATED THIS. Just like my African-American example I made earlier, these Arameans came from no where, and slowly became part of the Assyrian society, so much so, they gained high status in the empire. NOT as Arameans, but as ASSYRIANS. Assyrians never submitted to the Arameans nor did they become subjects of an Aramean empire. They essentially merged, and it was always under the ASSYRIAN BANNER. THey also dont point to how the Assyrians squashed the rebel Arameans, and kept those a like in check. So how the fuck did Assyrians controlling Arameans, merging into one people eventually as Assyrians, turn into Assyrians disapearing and evolving into Arameans after the Assyrian fall? See how silly that sounds?

An African American, no matter how black the motherfucker is, will always be AMERICAN, because he is in the country of America. That is the land of Assyrians, that was established by Assyrians in ancient times, and was controlled by Assyrians the longest while in its early stages. Its why Assyrians claim ownership. Rome will always be Rome, as Nineveh will always be Nineveh. More importantly, this is the land of Assyrians, meaning, Assyria(n) land. A Kurdish person can be Assyrian, since he is living in Assyria. Again, referring to the "American" label comparison. A Turkoman, Yazid, etc, all are a part of the Assyrian mosaic as far as Im concerned, so long as they remain living in Assyria. While its not a new concept to rename lands (I.E. Kurdistan) in modern times, its a travesty that the Assyrian name remains REMOVED with Assyrians still around. Iraq was a great concept ("Iraq" being inspired by "Uruk", the Sumerian/Akkadian city-state) that made for a sound representation of all Mesopotamian peoples. However, those fucks have a hard time with democracy, and have a hard time distinguishing from Christians in the EAST, and Xtians in the WEST. Funny thing is, Assyrians dont refer to themselves with that falsified greek term, "Xtian", they refer to themselves as "msheekhaye" or Messiah follower. This, and the fact that GWB didn't come over and play favorite to Assyrian Xtians (Western Evangelists dont relate to or acknowledge Eastern Xtians) should be telling to those stupid fuckin terrorist fucks now giving them excuse to harras and kill our people back home. I don't see terrorists having the balls to fuck with the Kurds, who are DIRECTLY getting fed by and givin the reigns to by the Americans. So for this and many other reasons, Assyrians deserve Assyria, as IRAQ or Kurdistan will NEVER work.



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