The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Longrigg...part two

Re: Longrigg...part two
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Monday, April 1 2013, 14:46:02 (UTC)
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nestrieno wrote:
>pancho thank you for you quick and interesting answer; i can agree with you, may be the decision to side with the british was a mistake, because the history has shown to us that the british had only one aim which is their own interest, history has shown that the british betrayed assyrians and did not fullfilled their promises. But the decision to side with the british was not only agha petros decision. The decision had been taken in a conference gathering many high assyrian representatives and mar shimun was one of them. i have details about differents events during ww1, and fights . may be the decision to side with the british was not the best choice. but at that time i think there was not many solutions for assyrians than to survive escape and fight against kurdish and turkish troops killing our children and our women.

...I can't agree with that...and not because I don't want to are I am a "traitor", but because actual history does not back that up. I know we have always presented Islam as out to get us, to kill us and convert us on pain of death...but I have found no evidence of that in history...I mean actual history books written by world-class scholars, not our own engineers and accountants who abuse history and write it as they believe it should be...in fact they, all of them Christians, state that the opposite was true; that it was Christians who killed people JUST for their religious beliefs...that Muslims retaliated against us is true...but we started it, not they.

Take our claim that the Turks "massacred" us in WW I. Not only is there no evidence of that, not as a government sponsored "genocide", but it flies in the face of Muslim tolerance for centuries, which we, with the millet system, should remember...only Turks gave freedom of worship to Jews and Christians while in Europe the Christians were murdering both (and each other) for centuries.....so if, I said IF, the Turks became intolerant for the period of WW I, it must be because something happened to make them change...in other words it was not the normal thing for Turks to massacre Christians, while it WAS normal all those centuries for Christians to murder Jews and Muslims, and forcibly convert them...so if Turks changed their attitude and policies even, something must have happened to change what was for them, normal, tolerant, behavior, and that something was WW I when the West openly said that Turkey was a "sick old man" and showed just how Christians treat such old men...by ganging up on one and trying to steal his petroleum and kill his grandchildren.....The Holocaust in Germany, in which other Christian nations participated and gladly too, was business-as-usual for Christian nations who'd been abusing and persecuting Jews for a thousand years at least...but what the Turks are accused of doing was NOT usual, in fact Turks were known, even in the West, as just the opposite; as a most tolerant and accepting people....

In short, WE, by our betrayals and treason, made ourselves the objects of anger and then hatred, as would happen anywhere, among any people....so that it wasn't the Turks who all of a sudden began hating us and killing us, it was WE who made them turn against us...till then and for 1000 years Christians had been welcome and protected in the Ottoman Empire...again, I don't make this up...we have cited evidence for this on numerous occasions here and I can do it again if you so desire.

>Concerning british promises i have an original letter send from captain G Gracey to agha petros dated december 18 1929; this is an extract:
>"the assyro chaldeens like the armenians were promised much during the hostilities and if people were to grow rich with broken promises, then both would be rich beyond the dream of avarice. for promises multiplied were given but not fullfilled. altered times and changed conditions are not for help the fullfillment of promises made. however that will not alter theses facts. Your people deserved well of the allied powers and they have been treated with scan courtesy. History will endorse this stain on the escutcheons of the allied and associated powers." written by cptain g. Gracey to agha petros december 18th 1929.

...that is known as "covering your ass"...or rather covering your governmen'ts ass.....if indeed you are wiser now, why do you believe this man? T.E. Lawrence also made a big show of being "shocked, SHOCKED" that his government didn't really mean to give their Arab allies autonomy and "their own country", as they too had "promised". The only people whose promise of a land was fulfilled was the Jews and that's only because the Brits were DELIGHTED to get them all out of Europe, having finally taught them, after centuries, that Jews really were better off someplace else. One has to wise up someday...


>to finish my message i wanted to say that we must take lessons from history,
>but we cannot do anything the past is the past.

...that depends on whhat you mean by "history"....for example, for five years we have been asking assyrian nationalists and "historians" for evidence for their claims that Islam "murdered us JUST for being Christians, and also forcibly converted us, on pain of death.....I ask you now, with your knowledge of history, to provide us with one, ONLY one, fact or piece of evidence or incident where Muslims killed our people JUST because they were Christians, or forcibly converted them...just one.

i wonder what we should have done if we had been living during thoses troubled events ww1? nobody knows.

...I would not have taken up arms against my own government...or been shocked if I had, that my family was attacked....it was a foolish risk...especially since our side WON...and we got nothing...which, had we known real history, we never would have done...as example: since that war, we have fallen for the same line over and over again, so that it seems our fateful decision is NOT based on "history" but on a desire, a need, a wish....and that will always lead to history...by our reaction the most recent war against Iraq, our support and joy and "hope" that this was to be a "golden opportunity" we once again showed that we do NOT learn from history.

>about you saying assyria, our country is an image, it is a fact true today. But our homeland bet nahrain will always be our homeland, we cannot deny that,


...how can an American, or an Italian etc., claim that his "homeland" is most dear to him when he takes the side of foreigners attacking and occupying his dear country?

if we deny that we are betrayer because our ancestors were born in bet naharain. Many assyrians all over the world are dreaming to come back to bet nahrain,this dream is legitime this dream does not hurt anyone. many assyrians all over the world are trying to keep alive our language, traditions culture and history all that is important for the memory of assyrian ancestors.

...actually this dream DOES hurt..and it has hurt...and is hurting now. This is the reason this forum exists; to explode this "dream" and show that it is ridiculous.....those of us outside Iraq, by making these claims over and over, anger Iraqis...and they take their anger out on those Christians left in Iraq....as would happen to any Native Americans who began demanding a part of Arizona.

....

>ok pancho i hope i was not too long and that i did not annoy you. i just wanted to give my opinion but i can be wrong. to be sincere with you i have to tell you that i am one of agha petros grandson (agha petros has 10 grandchildren)
>sincerely yours

..nothing personal against the Agha...my grandfather fought alongside, and served as doctor also...but my grandfather changed his mind and counseled our people who were refugees in Iraq to settle down as Iraqis and be loyal to their new country...succeed, take care of their families and forget this pipe dream

thank you too



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