The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Not again, please.

Re: Not again, please.
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Monday, April 30 2012, 0:47:28 (UTC)
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Fareed wrote:
>“....you can see Joseph is not giving his opinions here...he is giving us quotes and sources for those quotes...”
>
>You’re quite right. I know, Joseph is not giving his opinion. Joseph is giving the opinion of someone else and then interpreting it... Big difference? Not at all. Just different. But still an interpretation of an interpretation.

....oh brother...you really have it bad. No wonder you prefer Bebla...because his opinions please you..that's your entire criterion in a nutshell...I would love to see you argue like this in public...I suspect you know better...it's a pity we use so little of our brains.
>
>What you need to understand is THE FACT that Dr Joseph is interpreting other people’s interpretation. This is the case with any historian and you cannot argue with it. The “facts” presented by historians are only interpretations, and therefore opinions... they are Perceived as facts, but they can never be Factual. The reason for that is simply because they are based on what one makes of the information he’s looking at. It happens all the time, every time. Your views always dictate how you interpret history and the reasons behind the events. And they will always be interpreted differently from those with different views... Compare your interpretation of what went on in Iraq in the last twenty years, and the events/reasons behind them, to those who are ignorant of a thousand other reasons or more... Then be a historian and write about them... Then wait two thousand years and see who's going to present them as "facts" compared to other "facts' written today by someone else.

...to put it kindly, you're a fool...an uneducated fool to top of that....this is your ignorant view of history...the KKK feels the same way..."nobody is going tell THEM anything"!!!
>
>Historians are people. People have different views. Therefore, they see things and interpret them differently. And their interpretation is just that... INTERPRETATION... They are not Facts... They can never be Facts.

...you are dead wrong...as rong as cab be. This is a villagers point of view when he comes to the big city and finds hay in his ears and then goes on to say we ALL HAVE HAY IN OUR EARS...
>
>You interpret the change of the ancient Assyrian language to Aramaic as the “fact” that proves Assyrians became extinct.

...if a Frenchman forgets French, learns Aramaic instead...and then tells me, 1000 years later that he is FRENCH and offers as proof that he speaks Aramaic...what would you call him?


This is only because you seem to think that all the other ancient people today have kept their original language.

...Arabs did...Persians did...even though they adopted Arabic script they kept their l;anguage.

yet, the fact is that there is not one nation on earth today that still use their ancient language. Just like Assyrians, other nations have adopted other writing script for their language. They have also a modern language just like Assyrians do. This is quite natural because humans always try to simplify what they have. Yet, when the Assyrians started using Aramaic as the text for their written language, you interpret it as “They forgot their language”. So what about all the Akkadian words that are still used in the Assyrian language? What about all the other words that are similar? You seem to think that language shouldn’t evolve and change... But the fact is, it does.

...we've been through all this before...you're giving me Bebla and we've been round and round that...now, try addressing Herodotus.
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>“This reminds me, Layard, the hero of Nineveh, never called the people Assyrians but Chaldeans...that's because when he dug Nineveh up the only ancient name used for the Nestorians was Chaldeans...”
>
>So? You make it sound like that everything ancient, that existed from Nineveh, has been dug up. FYI those same experts you’re depending on say that only 10% of what is there have been uncovered so far. Did you read that? 10%. That means there is a 90% chance that what you think is wrong...

..less than 10%...when they find your evidence for you...then you can crow, till then you're just hoping...

So if I was you, I wouldn’t be so certain about my facts. Besides, since when were Chaldeans a separate people and civilisation? Oh, I see, they are mentioned in the bible as separate... Well, those who see the bible as history should first prove ANYTHING written in it as such... Heck, you should be the first to know that the bible is nothing more than a copy and a reinterpretation of what the Ancients wrote.... A Very natural evolution of human thoughts, again...

...not so...that is what was so exciting about the Assyrian discoveries, it reaffirmed certain historical passages in the bible...
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>Recently, Archaeologists proved that Arbil is the only place on earth that people have CONTINUOUSLY lived in for 7000 years. Now, since only Assyrians are known to have lived there for 1000 years or so,

...the last is your statement...besides you have brought o no sources no evidence..all you've done is say no evidence is any kind of factn..and then you dump what you claim are FACT on us...bring the sources...I did...evenb if your sources prove to be wrong or shady...bring SOMETHING! We're trying to have a grown up discussion here...all you've done so far is the equivalent of, "oh YEAH???"


you could interpret that as a fact to support that only Assyrians ever lived there... Or you could argue that some other people called “nestorians” came from nowhere and killed all the Assyrians that were there and settled in it. It doesn’t matter what you say, it would still be an interpretation and not a fact...

...YOU can do that...you can do anything you like...you aren't bound by any professional code...you have no professional ethnics..nothing, just whatever pleases you...well, buddy, that is not history, that is hysteria.
>
>“Thw above is mine...now, you can say this is just my opinion...but it is based on facts...”
>
>Please stop confusing other people’s opinions and interpretations with facts... Facts exist ONLY in Mathematics and, to a degree, Physics... The only facts that haven’t changed are those related to Mathematics... Even the facts we knew in Physics have changed and are still changing.... So again, please, differentiate between opinions/interpretations and Facts.

..like I said, you are foolish...no one holds such a low opinion of history, as a dscipline, as you do..it is your peculiar need and we can see why, because the actual thing shows you aren't assyrian, so naturally you're going to deny it legitimacy...the good news is that no one else, no one who counts in the real world feels as you do.

..by the way tell Bebla that he shouldn't use the word "Scientific" on the cover of his book...and tell him your reasons.
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>With regards to Ethnicity, beside culture, language and geography, and according to today’s standards, you can only say that it is a fact Assyrians are/aren’t linked to Ancient Assyrians based on Genetic Analysis.

...again, these are just your opinions...you seem to think that when someone brings massive evidence to bear HE is being stupid...but when you bring only yourself...you are being, what, scientific...we should listen to you but not Arnold Toynbee? Are you serious? Bring your sources....


Other than that, it is just an opinion based on how one prefers to interpret information... And there is always a guaranteed individual bias, for whatever reason, in doing that...

...too funny...and you are NOT a Narcissit?

So, please find Sfonza’s work and read it... Also, read Ancient and Modern Assyrians, a Scientific Analysis... And be wise enough to not judge a book by its paper back cover, publisher, or writer.... read its content, interpret it as you wish, an then make your judgment.

...hey, you just used the word SCIENTIFIC...I thought only math was, you know....I will not bring YOUR evidence for you...I bring mine...you bring yours. So far all we have is a lot of words from you, someone who thinks his opinion is as good as anyone else..including Edward Gibbon and Toynbee...BUT, tells me to read BEBLA!!! Do you see yourself???
>
>Anyways, thanks for the exchange. I am certain that none of us will lose sleep over the other for interpreting things differently.

...you certainly won't...your world is a very simple one...you are right with your opinions and everyone else is just doing the same...

...ah, you failed to address a single thing from Dr Joseph...I think you're afraid...afraid to get educated, to find that your opinions are pretty shabby things next to the elegance and truth of real history.
>
>Have a great time.



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