The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Okay, you wanna start fresh and "discuss" things?

Re: Okay, you wanna start fresh and "discuss" things?
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Wednesday, May 28 2008, 8:37:49 (CEST)
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MiniMe wrote:
>"I'll say it again; Christianity is VERY different from any other religion on earth...can you PROVE to me that it isn't?"
>
>Absolutely. The fact that there are millions and millions who are NOT influenced in the way you claim they are, proves that it isn't "Christianity" that causes people to do harm, it is human nature that either resonates and accepts a particular religious INTERPRETATION.

...sorry. That's pretty disingenuous coming from you considering the kinds of things you've said about Islam...once again you take your own interpretations for the rules of the game...the fact is that your opinions mean nothing to the millions and millions of Christians who believe THEY are right and you are wrong...I was addressing my comments to THOSE Christians, not to you or any of you who believe differently....as I said; I am talking about what millions of Christians believe and ACT upon for THEMSELVES, regardless of what you think of them and whether you were ever born or not. To put it simply your views on actual Christian history and ritual is NOT the issue...the issue is what THEY believe because THEY are the ones doing the harm that I'm refering to...I can't believe that you really don't understand this...if you do, then you could get into the substance of the discussion...instead you try to interrupt and drown out the process...a sure sign that you either don't understand, in which case what's the point of including you...or that you do understand and are simply trying to sidetrack the conversation.

And those who are full of crap, do their stuff and find an excuse to justify the shit they do, whether their excuse is religion or not is beside the point, it is, never the less, just an EXCUSE...

..like I said, this is all YOUR insight, prejudice, point of view, opinion etc and etc. I was NOT giving MY opinion of these rituals and beliefs..I was giving the ACTUAL beliefs and the ACTUAL rituals...and THEN, and try to follow this, and THEN I was making MY OBSERVATIONS on their EFFECTS on Children...can you see the diference?
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>"Use YOUR imagination and DEEP THINKING to show I'm wrong...don't JUST use cuss words, use FACTS!"
>
>What should the "facts" be based on?


..well, if I'm discussing YOUR rituals and beliefs, the facts should be the most direct QUOTE I can find of YOUR beliefs..and NOT MY opinion about YOUR beliefs....I was discussing Catholic and Eastern Orthodox beliefs, so I used DIRECT QUOTES and documents from Cardinals and other authoritative sources which exactly stated THOSE BELIEFS...the beliefs of CATHOLICS and EASTERN ORTHODOX people...and THEN, the NEXT thing, was to give MY opinion of those FACTS...the FACTS as stated by the people who BELIEVE THEM!!! You can't possibly NOT understand what I mean in making this simple statement over and over again.


The written word or the understanding of what the written word means? If you say "the written word", you are assuming that it means a "particular" thing, in which you can well be very wrong...


..YOU are the one interested enough to decide that Catholics, millions and millions of them, got it WRONG..it is not MY place to tell them that. I ask THEM what they believe...and they TELL me...and a Cardinal comes on to make SURE I understand that Jesus meant REAL flesh, as he said in his own words...this is all I need to understand what THEY believe...none of this has anything to do with what YOU believe THEY mean...you can tell me what YOU think of what THEY believe...but that doesn't change what THEY believe!

..your point of view is that they are wrong, or can't possibly mean what they SAY they mean, in the Bible and the gospel of St John...I don;t do that. I take them at their word...YOU tell me that their word is WRONG...like I said, it isn;t my place to tell God what he means to say...his words are clear enough, if not to you, then certainly to the people THEMSELVES. ASK THEM!!!!

Even if millions agree with you, it is still an poinion-based-interpretation...

...they don't agree with "me". They don't know me. I take them at their word...if you and I enter a Catholic Church and ask the people there what THEY think the Eucharist means, they'll tell it the way I understand it...I certainly won;t tell them they're WRONG...which is all you've been doing. I will take them at their word and THEN I'll give my opinion on their beliefs..but I will NOT tell them their beliefs are wrong...I'll tell them that these beliefs of theirs are bad in their cumulative EFFECT...but I won;t tell them that their beliefs are wrong...which is what you're doing.

on the other hand, if you say "the interpretation of the written word", the question is, what should the interpretation be based on? what is the refrence before an interpretation can be made correctly?

...there is no interpretation of the word of God...Catholic clergy define it for the masses who follow the rules set by their church. I am dealing with THEM...with the people who BELIEVE Jesus meant eat me! Not with you, who believes they "misunderstood"...or that the words are REALLY symbollic...THAT is interpretation...taking the word of God literally is the ESSENCE of religion, if you believe the bible is the word of god...which Catholics and Orthodox believe...they don;t believe in personal interpretation, you do.
>
>If you really know what you're talking about, stick to one thing at a time...

...I did...I said Jesus told his followers to eat him and I found his EXACT words which clearly state those beliefs. Catholics themselves and Orthodox people agree with me when I say these are the words of Jesus himself...YOU are the one who wants to twist them and interpret them the way you would like them to read...go ahead. But it has no bearing on the issues I raised..if YOU want to raise your own separate issue, go ahead....if you want to write and write to show it's metaphorical etc, go ahead...if I feel like it, I'll enter your discussion...if I don't, I'll skip it. I raised MY issue, I know exactly what I meant and what I was after...but you come along telling me what I SHOULD be saying and believing....you have a god complex.


For now, it is "facts" that you're interested in, so try to sort out what is and isn't "fact"...

.."fact" takes no "sorting out" at all...it is not My place to "sort out" God's word. Jesus couldn't have spoken any more clearly or forcefully...if that isn;t enough then Church officials back him up..and if THAT isn't enough for you...look out your window and count the millions of Christians who believe what Jesus said. I accept the word of Jesus as stated in the Bible, which Christians believe contains the actual word of God. It isn;t my place to "sort out" anything in the Bible for THEM.

Saying that millions of people believe something can be a fact, but saying that what they believe is "right" can in no way be a fact, for sure...

...I never said their belief is "right"...I said it is most HARMFUL. But that THEY believe the words of Jesus are RIGHT is beyond dispute...just ASK THEM! YOU are passing judgement on them, telling THEM they got it wrong...I don;t do that...I say they are RIGHT in interpreting Jesus the way they do, it's obvious to me as welll that this is what he ACTUALLY meant...THEY think it is right to teach these things...I DON'T. But I agree with them on what those "things" mean.

If you don't agree with that, you then have to explain what "fact" is...

...once again...I agree with the millions of Christians who say that THESE are the actrual, FACTUAL words of Jesus and that THIS is EXACTLY what he meant...he MEANT eat me and drink me...in that I am in agreement with m illions of them...but I do NOT agree that this is a good thing, or a healthy thing...in fact, I say just the opposite.

...clealry Catholicism and Orthodoxy are very different from all other religions on earth and even many Christians sects, in BELIEVING that their Lord told them to eat and drink him...that is a FACT that needs no sorting out or interpretation...what this belief and ritual DOES to CHILDREN is my next question...and I have my own ideas about that...and here Christians would disagree with me..but they would NOT disagree when I say that Jesus MEANT his followers to eat and drink him.

...I'm not arguing Christian beliefs and rituals with you,. or anyone...I accept what THEY tell me, not what YOU say about what they believe...I take them at their word and THEN state my opinion about the ramifications of such awful teachings on the developing minds of young children.



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