The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5
=> Re: Please read rarefully and ALL the way to the end
| Re: Please read rarefully and ALL the way to the end |
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Posted by
Maggie
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- Tuesday, February 20 2007, 23:20:53 (CET) from 70.135.130.20 - 70.135.130.20 -  Windows XP -  Internet ExplorerWebsite: Website title: |
You wrote: "He writes that the word “Chaldean” was of earlier use than Assyrian to describe our people, known till then as Nestrorians, and that the Roman Catholic Church chose that word as the description of the “place” or geographical location where the central church was located...and NOT, as we rushed to use it, as an ethnic title." This is a complete falsehood. The ancient term "Chaldean" meant a profession, ONLY, as in "astronomers". The words UR of Chaldea means "Cradle of Stars" as in the Milky Way, the same as URMIA means cradle of water, (UR MIA). This group of astronomers were ASSYRIANS, and the learned men of Assyria. There NEVER was a city called CHALDEA, NEVER. Therefore, we can say the ancient Chaldeans were a group of scientists, more specifically astronomers within the Assyrian Empire. Here is what the CATHOLIC encyclopedia writes about the Christian Chaldeans: The name of former Nestorians now reunited with the Roman Church. The name of former Nestorians now reunited with the Roman Church. Ethnologically they are divided into two groups (Turco-Persian and Indian), which must be treated apart, since in their vicissitudes one group differs considerably from the other. The first group is usually known as Chaldeans, the second as Christians of St. Thomas (also called the Syro-Malabar Church). I. NAME AND TERRITORY OF CHALDEANS Strictly, the name of Chaldeans is no longer correct; in Chaldea proper, apart from Baghdad, there are now very few adherents of this rite, most of the Chaldean population being found in the cities of Kerkuk, Arbil, and Mosul, in the heart of the Tigris valley, in the valley of the Zab, in the mountains of Kurdistan. It is in the former ecclesiastical province of Ator (Assyria) that are now found the most flourishing of the Catholic Chaldean communities. The native population accepts the name of Atoraya-Kaldaya (Assyro-Chaldeans) while in the neo-Syriac vernacular Christians generally are known as Syrians. The territory now occupied by these Chaldeans belonged once to the ancient Sassanid Empire of Persia, later Omayyad and then the Abbassid caliphs of Islam. Turkish and Mongol invasions, and later efforts to reconstruct the former Kingdom of Persia shattered effectually the earlier political unity of this region; since the end of the sixteenth century the territory of the Chaldeans has been under Turkish or Persian rule. In fact, however, a number of the mountain tribes are only nominally subject to either. THIS MEANS there NEVER was a territory or region called Chaldea, otherwise ALL Chaldeans would be in Southern Iraq, not Atour, which is northern Iraq! Having established that, let us move to today's Chaldeans. The modern term "Chaldean" was designated by Rome in the last few hundred years, and means CATHOLIC, period! Nothing more and nothing less. Additionally, the Vatican mistakenly identified the See of the modern Chaldeans as being in Babylon by mistake, because they thought ancient Babylon is today's Baghdad. Chaldeans are Akkadians by origin, the same as Assyrians, so they were NEVER a seperate ethnicity. Now let us read what the CATHOLIC Encyclopedia writes about Nestorians: II. CHALDEANS IN TURKEY AND PERSIA From the fifth century, the Persian Church quietly, almost unconsciously, adopted the Nestorian errors. Previous to that period, its relations with Rome had been insignificant owing to distance, language, racial temper, and a certain ardour of nationalism begotten by the almost perpetual wars with the Roman Empire. Up to the end of the Middle Ages, there also lay between Persia and Rome another, and insuperable, obstacle: The Byzantine Church. It is true that at the end of seventh century a Nestorian prelate, Sahdona, accepted the Council of Chalcedon and returned to Christian orthodoxy, but this implied only a renewal of union with the Melchite (Orthodox Greek) Church of Antioch and the East, by no means a recognition of the supremacy of the Pope of Old Rome. The present Chaldeans do not therefore descend from Sahdona. It was not until the thirteenth century that the political revolutions of Central and Farther Asia permitted closer relations between the Nestorian Christians and the Roman Church, whose missionaries then reached the valley of the Tigris by way of the new Latin principalities. Innocent IV, an earnest promoter of the Eastern missions, had sent two Dominicans to Sabhrisho' ibn-al-Masih, the Catholicos of the Nestorians. Through his vicar Ard (perhaps Addai) the catholicos sent to Rome a profession of faith and a theological treatise by the Archbishop of Nisibis, Iso'yahb bar Malkon (1247). The result of this mission is unknown; certainly Makkikha and Denkha, successors of the aforesaid catholicos, pursued the matter no further. Yahbalaha III, however, elected in 1281, sent to the pope, in his own name and in that of Argun, King of the Tatars, the Chinese monk, Barsauma (1287). Nicholas IV welcomed the Nestorian envoy and sent him home with many gifts for the catholicos, requesting kind treatment for such Dominican missionaries as might traverse his province. In 1304 the same Yahbalaha took advantage of the return to Rome of the Dominican James to address to Benedict XI a profession of faith dated from the city of Maraga. The frightful disturbances of the fourteenth century interrupted these friendly relations. Towards the middle of the fifteenth century the office of catholicos became hereditary and passed from uncle to nephew in the same family. Meanwhile the Nestorian communities, dispersed throughout the former Arabian Empire, cut off from all communication with their natural religious centre, dwindled to insignificant proportions or disappeared altogether. In 1445 Andreas, Archbishop of Colossae, was sent by Eugene IV to reconcile with Rome the Nestorian prelate Timothy, known as the Archbishop of Tarsus, but then resident in Cyprus. After obtaining from this prelate certain modifications of the Nestorian Liturgy, Andreas forbade the Latin Christians of Cyprus to treat the Chaldeans as heretics. In 1551 the Catholicos Simeon bar Mama was succeeded by his nephew, Simeon Denhha. According to a custom then about a century old, the latter was consecrated by Henanisho, the only remaining metropolitan. A numerous anti-synod met at Mosul, convoked by the Bishops of Arbil, Salamas, and Aderbaidjan. In agreement with the principal laymen they chose for bishop a monk of the monastery of Rabban-Hormizd Se' ud bar Daniel, known as Sulaqa (Ascension). Probably at the suggestion of some Latin missionary, they sent him to Rome, where he received episcopal consecration from Julius III, with the title of Patriarch of the Chaldeans. On his return to his country Sulaga consecrated two metropolitans and three bishops. In the meantime, the aforesaid Nestorian catholicos, Simeon Denha, won over the Pasha of Diarbekir; John Sulaga was imprisoned and later on (1555) was put to death. The united Chaldeans soon chose as his successor Abdisho', the Metropolitan of Djeziret ibn-Omar (Beit-Zabdai'), who went to Rome (1562) during the pontificate of Pius IV, received there the pallium, and was invited to assist at the Council of Trent. He declined this honour but addressed to the assembly a profession of faith that was read at the twenty-second session. He returned to his people, and after a few years died among them at Seert (1567). The patriarchal office remained vacant for some time. Though very little as known of Aitalaha, the successor of Abdisho', it is certain that he did not go to Rome for the pallium, as did his predecessors. His energetic auxiliary, however, Hormizd-Elias Amas Abid, who had been consecrated by Sulaka as Archbishop of Amid and Jerusalem, was always in friendly communication with the Latins. In the meantime a large body of Nestorians headed by Denha Simeon, the Archbishop of Gelu, Salamas, and Seert, rejected the authority of the successor of bar Mama and submitted to Aitalaha, on whose death Simeon was chosen to succeed him. The Turco-Persian wars obliged Simeon to reside in the mountains, near Salamas in Persia, whereas his predecessors had resided at Amid (Amida). This change of residence had important consequences: the successors of Simeon in the end retained jurisdiction only over the provinces subject to the Persians, and had no longer any intercourse with Rome except at long intervals. In this way many Chaldeans returned to the Nestorian heresy (if, indeed, they had ever abandoned it). Simeon died in 1593. In 1619 his successor, Simeon II, wrote that he should visit Rome, which promise, however, he was unable to execute. In 1650 Simeon III corresponded with Innocent X. In 1658 Simeon IV entered on relations with the Congregation of Propaganda, for which attitude his subjects tried to depose him. Alexander VII, however, defended him earnestly in a letter to the King of Persia and urged that he might be permitted to retain his patriarchal office. There is still extant a letter of Simeon V (1670) to Clement X, also one of Simeon VI (1770) to Clement XIV. Since the election of Simeon VII (1839) no further attempts have been made by the Chaldeans of Persia to renew relations with Rome. The establishment (1837) of a Protestant mission near Urmia probably accounts for this regrettable attitude. Nevertheless, the present Nestorian patriarch, resident at Kotchannes in the mountains of Kurdistan, is a direct successor of John Sulaga, one of those who initiated the aforesaid union with Rome. Simeon bar Mama was succeeded in 1576 by Elias Simeon Venha who in 1586 sent a profession of faith to Sixtus V. It was, however, judged heretical. Elias II (1591-1617) took up again the question of reunion and in a letter to Rome (1610) complained that he and his people were regarded as heretics by the Franciscans of the Holy Land. In 1616 he assembled at Amid (Diarbekir) a general synod, attended by eight metropolitans and in which Padre Tommaso da Novara, superior of the Franciscan convent of Aleppo, took part. In preparation for this synod an embassy had been sent to Rome (1612) headed by the archimandrite, Addai. The union was consummated, but in appearance only. Two persons appeared to have been sincere in their conversion: Addai, consecrated at the aforesaid synod as Bishop of Amid and Jerusalem and (perhaps) the patriarch. The latter, however, died the following year. His successor, Elias (III) Simeon (1617-1660) also solicited from Rome the pallium but his profession of faith was not found orthodox. The negotiations soon ceased and were not resumed either by Elias (IV) John (1600-1700), or by Elias (V) (1700-1723). It is said that Elias (VI) Denha (1723-1778) corresponded with Rome. If so his successor, Elias (VII) Ishotyahb, observed an attitude of independence. Finally, John Hormizd -- the last descendant of the patriarchal family of bar Mama -- went over definitely to the Catholic Church (1830) and took with him the See of Baghdad-Mosul and many Nestorians. In 1672, Joseph, the Nestorian Archbishop of Diarbekir, following the advice of the Capuchin missionaries, withdrew from communion with the Patriarch Elias IV. The latter tried to have him assassinated and roused against him the vigorous enmity of the Turkish authorities. Joseph fled to Rome (1675), but after an understanding with the Propaganda, and with the sanction of Clement X, returned to his own country where he was active in organizing the union of his people with Rome. Innocent XI granted him the pallium (1681) and the title of patriarch. He resigned in 1693 and died at Rome. The learned Joseph (II) Ma'aruf (1693-1713), received from Clement XI (1701) the title of Patriarch of Babylon. His successor, Joseph (III) Moses Timothy (1714-1756), had a very troubled career. In 1731 he went to Constantinople to protest against the incessant annoyances of the Nestorians. Thence he proceeded to Rome, where he promptly received an intimation to return to his diocese. He was unable, however, to reach it and appeared again in Rome (1735), where for six years he was kept in seclusion. At the end of this period he was restored, at the prayers of his flock, and returned to Amid (1741), where he died in 1756. Joseph (IV) Timothy (1759-1779) followed him in the patriarchal office. Joseph (V) Augustine Hindi succeeded (1779-1826) with the title of Archbishop and Administrator of the Chaldean Patriarchate of the Province of Diarbekir, for the Diocese of Mosul he had as auxiliary the priest George of Alkosch. Owing to the scarcity of documents the history of this period is little known. From letters edited by Giamil (Genuinae relationes, 391-399) it would appear that properly speaking Joseph IV had no successor, perhaps because of the aforementioned conversion to Catholicism of John Hormizd, the last descendant of bar Mama. John Hormizd had been excommunicated in 1818, but was reconciled with Rome in 1830 and proclaimed Patriarch of Babylon by Pius VIII; he owed this happy settlement to the kind efforts of Pierre Coupperie, the Latin Bishop of Babylon. In 1838 Nicholas Isaias Jacob, Bishop of Aderbaidjan, and a former pupil of the College of Propaganda at Rome, was appointed his coadjutor with right of succession. The same year John Hormizd died, and in 1847 Isaias Jacob resigned. His successor, Joseph (VI) Audo (1848-1878), entered on a serious conflict with Pius IX. Though the Bull "Reversurus" had provoked (1867) a schism in Armenia, it was imposed upon the Chaldeans in 1869. Joseph Audo maintained his prerogative in the matter of episcopal ordinations and was threatened with excommunication by the papal Encyclical of September, 1876. Audo died in 1878, but had previously been reconciled with Pius IX. Leo XIII appointed as his successor Elias (XII) Abolionan (1878-1894), who was followed by the learned George 'Abdisho' (V) Khayyath (1894-1899) and Joseph Emmanuel (II) Thomas. III. PRESENT STATUS The latest and most complete Statistics of the Catholic Chaldeans were furnished in 1896 by Mgr. George 'Abdisho' Khayyath to the Abbe Chabot (Revue de l'Orient Chrétien, I, no. 4). The patriarch considers Baghdad as the principal city of his see. His title of Patriarch of Babylon results from the erroneous identification (in the seventeenth century) of modern Baghdad with ancient Babylon. As a matter of fact the Chaldean patriarch resides habitually at Mosul and reserves for himself the direct administration of this diocese and that of Baghdad. There are five archbishops (resident respectively at Bassora, Diarbekir, Kerkuk, Salamas, and Urmia) and seven bishops. Eight patriarchal vicars govern the small Chaldean communities dispersed throughout Turkey and Persia. The Chaldean clergy, especially the monks of Rabban-Hormizd, have established some missionary stations in the mountain districts inhabited by Nestorians. Three dioceses are in Persia, the others in Turkey. There are in all 233 parishes and 177 churches or chapels. The Catholic Chaldean Clergy number 248 priests; they are assisted by the religious of the Congregation of St. Hormizd (Rabban-Hormizd) who number about one hundred. There are about fifty-two Chaldean schools (not counting those conducted by Latin nuns and missionaries). At Mosul there is a patriarchal seminary, distinct from the Syro-Chaldean seminary directed by the Dominicans. The total number of the Chaldeans according to the above-mentioned authority is nearly 78,000, 24,000 of whom are in the Diocese of Mosul. This number is perhaps a little exaggerated. The figure of about 66,000 given by Dr. Oussani (see ASIA) as against 140,000 Nestorians is more correct. The liturgical language of the Chaldean Church is Syriac. Arabic, Turkish, Persian, Kurd are variously spoken by the people; in some districts the vernacular is neo-Syriac. The liturgical books are those of the ancient Nestorian Church, corrected in the sense of Catholic orthodoxy. Unfortunately, without doctrinal necessity, they have in some places been made to conform with Latin usage. Religiously and morally the Chaldeans are on a level with the other Catholic communities of the Oriental Rite. They are becoming daily better instructed, owing in part to the zeal and devotion of Latin missionaries and religious (Dominicans at Mosul, Carmelites at Baghdad, Lazarists in Persia). Their clergy counts among its members such learned men, as Mgr. Giamil, Mgr. Addai Scher, and Mgr. Manna, authors of numerous publications interesting to Orientalists. This literary revival is mostly due to the Lazarist, Pere Bedjan, a Persian Chaldean. He devoted much industry and learning to popularizing among his people, both Catholics and Nestorians, their ancient chronicles, the lives of Chaldean saints and martyrs, even works of the ancient Nestorian doctors. J. LABOURT Transcribed by Joseph P. Thomas The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume III Copyright © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company Online Edition Copyright © 2003 by K. Knight Nihil Obstat, November 1, 1908. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York pancho wrote: >It’s 2:30 AM…Went to bed early to read…took a cat nap an hour later and read till now. No point trying to sleep… > >Something in Dr Joseph’s first chapter keeps going round in my head. He writes that the word “Chaldean” was of earlier use than Assyrian to describe our people, known till then as Nestrorians, and that the Roman Catholic Church chose that word as the description of the “place” or geographical location where the central church was located...and NOT, as we rushed to use it, as an ethnic title. > >It was, in other words, geographical and not historical. > >What keeps me from sleeping is the recollection of a post by one fellow, responding to the accusation that the word “Assyrian” was added to the Eastern Church’s title relatively late…according to Dr Joseph in 1976…I had heard the 1960s but I’ll take his word for it since the difference is so slight as not to matter in this case…and because he knows more about the subject than I do. > >What strikes me now in that fellow’s heated response…when aren’t we heated when responding…was that it was” taken for granted” all along that the Nestorian church was an Assyrian church because it was IN Assyria and what would you expect it to BE if not Assyrian…he added that the name “Assyrian” had been deliberately added to the title only because Saddam had begun to deny our identity blah blah blah and so the church wanted to “make sure” to preserve our identity etc. > >I have to admit that at the time his reasoning, or so it seemed to me, was sort of sound…a church IN Assyria, remembering that he is one of those who persists in calling Iraq “occupied” Assyria…would indeed be an Assyrian church. > >Except that on reading Dr. Joseph’s book and noting his point that the early church was called Chaldean by the Roman church because it was in a region known historically by the name Chaldea…and that the Catholic pope wished to make a distinction between old sects and his newly reconciled Catholics and so added the name of the region to the new Church. But, rather than making instant Chaldeans out of the older Nestorians; the new Catholics, who attended the new church in historical Chaldea, shows us that geography can’t create ethnicity…as claims to ethnicity can’t recreate geography or turn geography into ethnic history. > >When an Assyrian from Iraq moves to America his grandchildren can refer to themselves as Americans…because by every rule of nationalism, they qualify. It doesn’t matter that their ancestors didn’t come on the Mayflower or on a slave ship…they are now this new thing called American…because before the Mayflower there was no America, as a nation to belong to. > >But that Assyrian descendant of the Iraqi immigrant can’t call himself an Apache or Cherokee…because they were here before America and it was never called America when the Apaches were the Apaches and not a minority in a new nation. The fellow can stand in front of all the wigwams he wants to…he can even live in one…he can smoke kinikinik in a peace pipe all day long, wear feathers in his hair and eat great big buffaloes…but it won’t make him an Apache…he can, however, eat hot dogs, drive a Ford, smoke Camels, drink Bud…and be an American. > >Likewise with that church in “Chaldea”…and the “Chaldean” too. He can stand in Chaldea…he can swim up to Assyria…he can have photos of himself taken in front of Assyrian ruins…he can point to the word written above his church, which he wrote there…but that doesn’t make him an ethnic Assyrian or Chaldean…no more than having his photo taken leaning on a Rolls Royce makes him its owner. > >So that the clever response of that irate Assyrian…and ain’t we all these days…that the church was always “assumed” to be Assyrian because it was IN Assyria…floats off on gossamer wings of national nothing…as does his most UN-reasonable point that since we are from historical Assyria and born in historical Assyria…we too must be presumed to BE historical Assyrians…when we’re just hysterical --------------------- |
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