The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Saddam

Re: Saddam
Posted by Arrow (Guest) - Tuesday, November 8 2011, 19:31:10 (UTC)
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Hello Rashad,

It is a known fact today by almost everyone except ignorant Americans that Saddam was brought to power by the US.

We know for sure that the CIA helped topple the pro-soviet Qassem after a failed assassination attempt. So the Baath party was indeed brought to power with their help. But I don't think he was handpicked as a puppet leader to serve US interest.

Let's talk about the US democracy and how good is it really. Many presidents have come and gone in the last 100 years but the policies haven't changed. The face changes but policy remains the same.

That may be the situation in most countries. The rhetoric of the campaigns makes it seem that the parties are very different but the reality on the ground obliges them to follow similar policies. Also the political system in the US requires the president to go through many hurdles in order to take radical steps.

Hillary Clinton was going toe to toe with Obama yet ended up being in his administration and how is that possible if they were so different?

They belong to the same party so it's not surprising that they're not so different. It's like brand positioning. Many products are identical to each other but the companies try to promote a distinctive image. But she is in a subordinate role now.

Obama sat with Bush and even John McCain after he won the election to get suggestions and "work closely with republicans." They are supposed to be different yet nothing changes so this is a perfect example of what can go wrong even with "free elections."

Well they should sit and work with each other. The republicans hold almost half the seats in the congress and the senate. If they are going to spend the time fighting each other then there will be a gridlock, like what happened in Iraq a year ago.

I agree with Pancho that it also depends on the level of education. People can be manipulated to vote against their own interests and sometimes without even knowing it. Americans are very naive, ignorant and it is done intentionally as well.

At least it's better than forcibly coercing the people into subjection. There is an Arabic saying: “the law does protect the idiots”. No political system can render the population immune from being deceived. So yes, this is a basic requirement of democracy. The people have to be educated and vigilant of what's going on around them.

America claims to be a democracy yet you only have two party system. There are candidates who aren't even republican nor democrat yet run under those banners just because they can't get ballot access.

Yes that's unfair. But the two party system seems to be a trend in most democracies. Even if you had many parties, they will merge and form alliances until eventually you end up with two major parties or political blocks. This happened in Lebanon and Iraq.

Obama was obviously too selected instead of elected because the majority of whites did not vote for him. Blacks are a minority and even if everyone of them had voted Obama, he still wouldn't make it.

Obama was selected? You mean he did not get the majority of votes? How come?

Even democraatic systems can be taken advantage of and people can be manipulated. Palestinians elected their leadership democratically yet Israel/US did not approve. Somalia also democratically elected its leadership yet it was overthrown few weeks later by the US via Ethiopia. Iran elected its leadership in the 50s but was assassinated and replaced by a western backed dictatorship.

Well those are cases of foreign interferences and not of democratic systems being taken advantage of or examples of the flaws of democracy.

One of my friends comes from Shia family in Iraq and he said he grew up poor with his single mother struggling to provide for the children in the 1960s. He said he could notice how quickly life improved for him and his siblings when Saddam came to power.

Iraq is a very rich country. The lives of everyone would have improved regardless of the ruler. All you need is stability and a continuous flow of oil revenues. He had to initiate changes and reform and improve the lives of the people to make it appear that the revolution was a great thing and to built popularity. Considering Iraq's wealth, it is not difficult to do so. He's not going to screw up it from the get go.

I highly doubt that in any capitalistic country, which claims to be free and democratic, votes of the majority(which are almost always right at about poverty or below), do votes actually matter. It is the interests of billionaires and super wealthy which are looked out for and not what people want.

That is not the case in France, Germany, Sweden, Japan... and so on.

I don't know what your intention is with this post but I hope it's not to justify the invasion of Iraq

Not at all. I would have preferred a popular revolt but that is impossible under Saddam. You eventually need foreign intervention. My friend told me that there was once a small and peaceful demonstration in Baghdad. They were merely demanding higher wage. Orders were given to crush them. He can still distinctly remember the sound of the bones smashing under the weight of Saddam's tanks.

or to tell me that the US has it better than Iraqis because they can elect their leaders.

Well they certainly do have it better but not because they can elect their leaders.

Americans didn't vote for more wars, spending etc. Americans voted for bringing troops home, stop these wars, close Guantanamo Bay etc. Obama made many such promises just like the presidents before him but was only lying.

More wars? Well they are bringing the troops back.

He has become no different from those "brutal dictators" because he has assassinated people and there hardly any kind of opposition in America.

Assassinated? No opposition?

During this term, Obama has killed more people than Saddam did in 30 years. He may have been a dictator but the claims that "he has killed his people" have never been proven ever.

You lost me here. Killed more people?

Which government has killed people? US has capital punishment and everything. Highest prison population in the world. Is this a free and democratic country?

Why were they executed? Why are they in prison? For political reasons? For opposing Obama?



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