The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: The modern Assyrian myth

Re: The modern Assyrian myth
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Saturday, February 4 2012, 23:53:13 (UTC)
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Ashur wrote:
>This is a paste from ... http://christiansofiraq.com/notaramean.html


...hold it right there...this could be the source of all your confusion...right there in that address the word Christian appears...do I really have to tell you that the bible and any and all religious writings have nothing to do with real history? We´re talking about real historians...not priests.




>This should cover everything...if this doesnt then I do not know what else to furnish...I do but dont have the time. Im really not trying to convince you because even if I did I could care less...the plan is greater then you and I and despite our opinions we debate it will go through. If the British did in fact term us "Assyrian" (THEY DID NOT, WANT TO BE CLEAR ON THAT) then this and everything else you have stated would be pointless - useless?? Cant you see why your wasting your time?? Remember that you and other Kurdish so-called scholars made these claims stating that we Assyrians were working for the British and brought not only this fake name that they termed us with but also brought hatred/trouble amongst ourselves which led to PROsecution on the Assyrian people rather than PERsecution that we have been crying out! You are basically blaming Assyrians for all the attacks on Christians because we were working for the British...


...again...there are all your opinions and I agree with you, who has the time to challege opinions? Let me see if I can narrow it doen for you...it is a fact, I believe and most of us believe, that we never referred to our selves as ÄSHURAYI but always a Suyrayi...that´s what I remember hearing all my life...that is a FACT, not my opinion and IO don´t need the bible for that.

..another fact is that the COE never called itself Assyrian until 1976...that is a fact, not my opinion.

...none of us knew anything about Gilgamesh or the Enuma Elish or anything that was not already in the bible, which the whole world had access to...when the ruins were uncovered none of us could read the Assyrian writing...none of us knew the history, the real and extensive history...that is a fact.

...It is a fact that if you renounce Christ you can no longer call yourself a CHRISTian...that ïan¨ending means ¨follower of¨. Therefore, if you leave Ashur, how can say you are still ASHURian?


...speaking Aramaic might make you Aramean, but it doesn´t make you Assyrian. That is a fact, not opinion...


...finally, please bring real historians....I wouldn´t dream of bringing you Buddhist monks as a souce for history, for the history of their RELIGION, yes, but not for what passes in the civilized world as academic history as taught in universities...please.

...and lastly this business about me having to be a Kurd because I disagree with you is silly, don´t you think? If I was, or if I was Arab, do you really think I´d be ashamed to admit it...really? I am not insulted at all when you refer to me as Muslim or Turk or anything else...I was born into a Nestorian community, as you were...or Chaldean, but really the same thing...we are a people who were too eager to believe we had a heroic past...and very easy to fool...the best con job is the one that gets the person you are conning to con HIMSELF...and that´s what we´ve been doing ever since the 1840s....

...I´ll end here.




like I asked you before...who are Kurds working with today? Was it not the Kurds who were thanking America for Democracy? The Kurdish KRG was funded and trained by Israel were they not? Kurdistan is funded by Zionism as is Saudi Arabia so what are you talking about...make sense when you speak! Yes we were working with them and made a bad decision especially at that time but who are they Kurds working with today. Maybe we should talkabout today since tomorrow is right around the corner? Remember this... Whether we get Assyria (which we will), Aramea, Chaldea one thing is for sure and that we all will be working for the White Man that you despise. It also means that if you are Kurd or Aramean (which I know youre not Aramean)then your point is useless and will never be heard. What it would mean is they have a plan THAT IS BIGGER THAN YOU AND ME and by you(Kurds)giving in to them today makes you just as guilty as we were for working with them in the past and since your country Kurdistan is functioning then the plan must be working??? So Im asking you...what the hell is your point? You cannot bring down the power...youre powerless! If you are Muslims then go to your Royal Family who hijacked your religion and sold it out for money and power...Saudis! Assyrians obviously existed before/during/after Rome and was never a British made up race...the proof has been laid out for you. As far as the language Sureth goes why not try looking it up? Remember that you said since I speak English doesnt meanIm King Richard which I replied that since I speak Aramean doesnt mane me an Aramean...especially since I dont even understand what they are saying...only the Aramiac parts I understand. Our langusge would be identical since we lived right across the region (close)from eachother. Can you tell me how it is that you connect to this ancient city called Cordue? How much information do we have on this ancient Cordue city and how can you prove that you modern day Kurds connect to this city? You speak several different language and religions...it cant be done. Sureth is connected to the Assyrian Empire which makes us all connected to the Assyrian Empire. Even if and only IF we were Arameans we are all still 100% connected to the ancient Assyrian Empire which means we were not far off from the connection.
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> Early Christian documents attest to the Assyrian identity of the Syriac speaking people who accepted Christianity in Mesopotamia, i.e. today's Iraq and Turkey.
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>The fourth century Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea, who wrote about the "Teaching of Addaeus the Apostle" asserts: "people of the East, in the guise of merchants, passed over into the territory of the Romans, that they might see the signs which Addaeus did. And such as became disciples, received from him ordination to the priesthood, and in their own country of the Assyrians they instructed the people of their nation, and erected houses of prayer there in secret, by reason of the danger from those who worshiped fire and paid reverence to water [i.e. Persian Zoroastrian]. [1]
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>While the New Testament was yet in making the 2nd century Tatian the Assyrian compiled in Syriac [language of the Assyrians] the four or perhaps five Gospels which existed separately into a continuous form which is known as Diatessaron, it was in use by the Christian Assyrians until the New Testament became available.[2]
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>The second century Prepon, the Assyrian, who was a student of Marcion is said to have introduced a new theological philosophy based on a work by Bardaisan.[3] His contemporary Lucian of Samostosa, in his "Goddess of Syria" wrote : "I that write [this] am "Assourious" [Assyrian]".[4] Although Greeks, Parthians, the Sassanian Persians and later Arabs who conquered the Assyrian homeland changed its name to suit their taste the descendants of the ancient Assyrians continued to preserve their identity and their forefathers' legacy.
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>The Parthians who ruled Mesopotamia from 145 B.C. to 225 AD renamed the central Assyria; Adiabene, in their language which meant "Land of two waters" i.e. Little and Great Zabs. Arabs who conquered the region in the 7th century AD changed its name to Iraq, but for the Christian inhabitants who considered themselves Assyrians their homeland continued to be Assyria. Thimithy I; the 9th century patriarch of the Church of the East in a letter to the monks of Mar Marun wrote that Babylonia, Persia and Assyria, and all countries of the East, including India and China were under his ecclesiastic jurisdiction.[5] For him and his people Assyria was their homeland and existed side by side with other countries of that time even if it had lost its sovereignty many centuries earlier. According to the 19th century Badger "In many medieval Syriac [Assyrian] manuscripts, Mosul is styled as Athor [Assyria] and it is not uncommon practice with ecclesiastical writers of the present day [19th century] to use the same phraseology". [6] Gesenius writes, "In Syriac Church literature 'Athor' [Assyria] is the name of Mosul, on the bank of the Tigris opposite to Nineveh; but it also designates a metropolitan see, including Mosul, Nineveh and other towns."[7] According to the "Atals de la Bible"the area called Ator (Assyria) by the Christians of Mesopotamia was at times approximately equal to the Assyria of Ashur Ubalit in 1340 B.C . [8]
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>The Syrian Orthodox Patriarch Michael the great (1126-99) centered in Edessa in Southeast Turkey wrote:
>In the first half of the 9th century "the Greeks were offending the Jacobites [members of the Syrian Orthodox Church] by saying: 'Your Syrian sect has no importance neither honor, and you did never have a kingdom, neither an honorable king'. the Jacobites answered them by Saying that even if their name is "Syrian", but they are originally "Assyrians" and they have had many honorable kings. He identifies the Arameans as people who lived west of the Euphrates.[9]
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>Nineveh which was destroyed in 612 B.C. became an important center of the Assyrian Christianity. It was presided over by a long list of bishops from 554 to several centuries later when its bishopric was transferred to Mosul. Mar Emmeh, the Bishop of Nineveh was elected Patriarch of the Church of the East and served in that position between A.D. 644 to 647, Ishu-Yahav was the bishop of Nineveh (627-637) when the byzantine forces under the command of Herculius defeated the Persians near that city in 627.[11] A 14th century tablet found in Karmalis [ancient Assyrian "Kar-Mullissi"located 18 miles Southeast of Mosul lists the name of the 39 bishops of Nineveh. Assyrians of the church of the East, the Syrian Orthodox Church, and the Chaldean church still observe a fast called the "Rogation of the Ninevites", a tribute to their Assyrian forefathers who according to the Old Testament fasted for GodÕs forgiveness. The fourth century Mar Aphrim the Assyrian asserts that, this Fast was observed by his fellow Christians, he wrote 12 homilies about the subject, as did other Assyrian writers.
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>The 13th century Gewargis Warda Arbillaya [from Arbil] asserts that the syriac speaking people of Mesopotamia are Assyrian and Babylonians. On the occasion of the Fast of the Ninevites he wrote:
>"Our lord heed the rogation (Ba-oota): of the Babylonians and Assyrians [Athoraye]
>Now that Church leadership is distressed and in disarray.
>"Our lord heed the request (Ba-oota) of our destitute country,
>I glorify your Godliness and ask for your forgiveness.[12]
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>Sources before Christianity attest to the survival of the Assyrians in their homeland after the fall of Nineveh. The Persian Achaemenid inscriptions of Darius, Xerexes, and other kings of that dynasty mention Assyria and Assyrians as people of their empire, a fact verified by Geek historians such as Herodotus, Strabo and others. Thousands of references from the fall of Nineveh to before the 19th century corroborate the kinship between the ancient and contemporary Assyrians. [13]
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>In recent decades for insidious reasons there has been a drive by some to redefine the Christian Assyrians as Arameans in contradiction to the fact that Assyrian writers before and after the 19th century have identified their people as Assyrian. For example Rev. Joseph Naayem a priest of the Chaldean Church, on page 66 of his book, "Shall this nation Die,"published in 1920, about the massacre of his people in Turkey, writes: "I thought of my parishioners at Urfa - now scattered; of my poor Assyro-Chaldean fellow countrymen, ruined and massacred; all by the same bloody hand ..."Authors of books such as the 1916 "Death of a Nation"by Abraham Yohannan, "The Flickering light of Asia"by Joel Warda, published in 1920, and many others refer to their people as Assyrian.
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>In April of 1920, on behalf of the Patriarch of the Syrian Orthodox Church Archbishop Mor Afrem Barsum wrote to the delegate of the Paris Peace Conference to bring to their attention "the suffering and the wishes of our ancient Assyrian nation who reside mostly in the upper valleys of Tigris and Euphrates in Mesopotamia...."To ignore all the references to Assyrians as a living people from the fall of Nineveh to before the 19th century and claim that this name was given to them by the the 19th century Western Missionaries betrays a simple minded judgement, and lack of adequate knowledge of history.
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>The Anti Assyrian propaganda exemplified by Mohammed Shamsaddin have been often part of the Middle Eastern state sponsored assimilation policies in Iraq, and Turkey. As part of his Pan-Arabism drive Saddam Hosain compelled Assyrians and non-Arab minorities to sign ethnic correction statements redefining themselves as Arabs. During the World War One massacres of the Christians, by the Ottoman Turks, Assyrians and Armenians who were willing to convert to Islam and declare themselves Turk or Kurd were allowed to live.
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>As one Assyrian writer, Obelit Yadgar puts it :
>"Empires flourish and then fade away. Nations soar in glory and then fall in defeat. Yet for the descendants of some nations, their national and cultural identity live on encrusted on their soul. Nowhere is this more evident than in the history of my own people: the Assyrians. Although weed and thorn have crept over the road from Nineveh, our once mighty capitol, we Assyrians have stayed on our long trek through the centuries by putting one foot in front of the other, overcoming one hurdle after another. More than our inherent strength, the love for who we are feeds our national spirit."This is the kind of dedication which few outsiders seem to be able to phantom.
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>1-"http://www.biblefacts.org/ecf/vol8/anf08-143.htm
>2- W. Stewart McCullough, "A short History of Syriac Christianity The Rise Of Islam, Shcolars Press, Chicago1982, P.31.
>3- http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/library/hyp_refut7.htm
>4- Lucian, Translated by A.M. Harmon, Vol. IV, "The godesse of Surrye", London 1925 p.339.
>5- William G. Young, "Patriarch, Shah and Caliph", Christian Study Center, Rawalpindi, Pakistan 1974, p.152.
>6- Henry Burgess, The Repentance of Nineveh, Sampson Low: Son and Co., London 1853, p. 36n.
>7- Stephanie Dalley, Nineveh after 612 B.C. , Alt-Orientanlishce Forshchungen #20, 1993, p .134
>8- Father Luc H. Grollenberg, L Atlas de la Bible, (French deition, Elsevier, Paris-Bruxelles, 1955, 80.
>9- History of Mikhael The Great" Chabot Edition (French) P: 750) as quoted by Addai Scher, Hestorie De La Chaldee Et De "Assyrie."
>10- A. Richard Diebold, "Center for Indo-European Language and Culture",
>http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/armol-4-R.html
>11- William G. Young, p. 87.
>12 - Odisho Malko Gewargis, trans. Yuel A Baaba, "We are Assyrians", JAAS, Vol. XVI, Np. 1, 2002 p. 84.
>13- William Warda, "Assyrians from the fall of Nineveh to present", http://www.christiansofiraq.com/facts.html



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