The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: Yes Arrow, God Is Fantasy

Re: Yes Arrow, God Is Fantasy
Posted by Arrow (Guest) - Thursday, March 1 2012, 21:53:26 (UTC)
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Hi,

It's highly likely that the Universe has always subsisted in some form or another.

I'm not sure about that. The universe did have a beginning. It is approximately 13.7 billion years old. Before that, there was nothing, or "quantum vacuum". According to the argument of the first cause:

1. A material event cannot cause itself or else it would have to precede itself, which is impossible.
2. For every material event, there is a material cause.
3. Its cause also must have a material cause.

Conclusion: either there is an infinite chain of causes, or there was a first cause. That first cause has to have the unique property of being uncaused.

Since the universe did not exist forever, we can say that infinite regression also did not exist. So how can we have a material explanation for the universe when there was no matter to begin with? Is there a plausible theory that would account for the emergence of something from nothing?

But then you might say “this is not a proof”. It is not, I agree. It does, however, keep God, as a theory or a possibility, on the table. For this reason Stephen Hawking said: “So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator”.

What is so fantastical about God anyway? He is:

1. Conscious
2. Immaterial
3. Eternal
4. Transcendental (outside space and time)

Atheists have no problem with 3 since they are willing to accept that the universe has been in existence since eternity. I do not think they have a problem with 4 either. So, do we have any reason to believe that the first two properties do not, or cannot exist?

the very essence of Space, time and matter consists of energy. And since the Conversation of energy states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. It stands to reason that such a scenario is highly probable.

You mean in the beginning there was just energy? Ok, What caused it to produce matter? And how? Energy existed since eternity, and then at some point in "time" it just "decided" to take action?

the Big Bang model, which by the way, is supported by evidence, explains that the Universe EXPANDED not CREATED from a compressed focal point in which all Space, time and matter was encapsulated under extremely hot, dense pressure.

The Big Bang model does not explain how the whole process started. There has to be a first push. Moreover, our universe is "fine tuned", as they say. The probability of having the right physical constants that would sustain life is extremely low. For this reason, scientist are discussing the possibility of the existence of an infinite number of parallel universes, and we just happened to be in the one that worked.

Scientists and Atheists don't place faith in anything. Faith is the belief in something without or in spite of evidentiary support for or against it.

We have faith that science will explain everything... that there is a material cause behind the origin of the universe... we have faith in our friends, relatives... etc

We Skeptics, Scientists and Naturalists

Are you in the scientific field or majoring in science?

I can disprove the existence of your God using Deductive Reasoning based on the nature of reality.

I presume you are referring to the Epicurus' argument from evil.



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