The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: because they are NOT assyrians....

Re: because they are NOT assyrians....
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Thursday, February 23 2012, 23:11:16 (UTC)
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>---I would appreciate that. Specifically any pertaining to bishops going to war with each other.

...I'll have to dig up my Will Durant...my copies are in storage in the States but the Mexican town where I am now has an English language library and I believe I saw copies of his 12 volumes there. I must add that it's refreshing to find one of us, I'm assuming you are, who actually shows any interest in books other then the bible....
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>---They and other minorities were forced to pay jizya under the Ottomans

...Can you imagine how many American young men would have gladly paid an extra tax to avoid being drafted into the Vietnam War? Besides which, the jizya was only demanded from men, only men, of military age...old men, women and children were exempted, they paid no jizya, and it was calibrated so that the poor paid nothing either...in return Christians were guaranteed the right to worship their faiths...a tax many a Muslim or Jew would have been happy to pay in the Christian countries where they lived when the Christians ruled, rather they were murdered outright or persecuted constantly...while Muslim men had to leave their farms and businesses and families behind to go to war, Christian family men and single men stayed right where they were and continued to do business and follow their calling and attend to their families and children...not a bad deal all the way around.

...How many assyrians would love to return to the days of jizya if they could only have their millet system back.

>---They cite the deaths of Assyrians during the Armenian genocide.

..."they" do...but "they" are not historians....the issue of a genocide by the Turks has been bandied about by politicians and taxi drivers and people like Aprim, who are not qualified and who haven't bothered to study the tons of documentary evidence...of course there are many Armenian historians who will tell you there was a genocide of Armenians...but you can also find Israeli historians who will tell you history proves the Palestinians have no rights to Palestine. Neutral historians are clear that there was no genocide of Armenians or Greeks and certainly not of Nestorians...many many died from starvation, as did thousands of Turks...and disease...there were many private acts of vengeance against Armenians, but that again is because of what they DID, not what they are i.e., Christians......

,,,consider this...it is well known in the West and among Christian historians that the Ottoman Empire was the only place on earth where Muslim, Jew and Christian lived side by side in peace...far greater peace than ever existed between Christian and Christian in the West...therefore, if all of a sudden the Turks reverted to a mode of behavior everyone admits was totally unknown for 500 years before, the logical thing is to ask what happened to drastically change their attitude towards their Christian and Jewish subjects? The answer is WW I wherein the leading Christian and most powerful nations on earth turned their guns on the Ottoman lands for the petroleum...that and the treacherous actions of Armenian partizans within and at the borders of the empire who took arms and rose against their lawful government...and as we said, in peace time this is sedition but in time of war it is treason and every country on earth will take military and punitive action against its citizens who rebel in tiem of war....nothing unusual there...of course it is sad and tragic, but not because these were Muslims or Christians but because this is the way people still behave...all people. Christians were safe in Istanbul and other parts of the Ottoman lands..had the Turks wanted to kill all Christians and Armenians they could easily have done it, in fact they had several centuries to do it but never did, never even tried or thought to.

I've said before that what motivates Christians to insist there was genocide and a holocaust against Christians by Turks is the embarrassing fact that only Christians have done these things...and they want desperately to tar Islam with their same blood soaked brush...but again, we can bring you the material...we don;t like making things up to suit ourselves...we are not in a propaganda war to force an issue...it's a lot cleaner and better to just seek the truth, wherever it falls.
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>---Is that what the Assyrian church is doing? Taunting/provoking muslim people? How so?

...well, by making these claims that Islam has murdered Christians because they refused to convert to Islam..this is a great insult and slander as well as a Lie. Christians say horrible things about Muslims, Islam and Muhammad where Muslims revere Jesus and his mother and never speak ill of him or of Christianity, as a religion...they certainly condemn the actions of Christians but never slander their religion, while we call them every name and hurl every insult we can.

...I think Rashad is better prepared to give you specifics.....

>---Are you muslim?

...would it matter if I was? If I told you Muslims developed chemistry, would you ask if I was Muslim.....if someone writes of the French Revolution would you ask if he or she was French? What does my religion, or lack of it, have to do with the facts and evidence I put before you? Would you call me a nigger-lover if I supported the Civil Rights Act....would you assume I was Gay if I came out for same-sex marriage....am I Jew-lover because I deplore what Christians have done to Jews...do I have to be Palestinian to deplore what Jews are doing to Palestinians....just what does my personal life have to do with my ideas..with the books I present and the interests I have?

...and no, I am not Muslim, Christian, Jew or Atheist....because I am no fool for god.



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