The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: because they are NOT assyrians....

Re: because they are NOT assyrians....
Posted by Ghwergis (Guest) - Thursday, February 23 2012, 19:37:42 (UTC)
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pancho wrote:
>Ghwergis wrote:
>>pancho wrote:
>>>Ghwergis wrote:
>>>>When I saw this site, I assumed it was some sort of pro-assyrian forum, but I see users like "pancho", trash talking the Assyrian people.
>>>
>>>..is truth "trash" to you?
>>---No, you seem very passionate/upset; this forum is difficult to follow, and I have no idea where you stand or are coming from at the core.
>
>...I am not upset at all...I am, as you say, passionate about the subject. I am passionate about many things...do you see something wrong with that?

---No

>>>I don;t like lying cowards, especially ones who prize ignorance above all else...the trash is coming from those Christians who try to pass themselves off as descendants of the ancient Assyrians...that's the trash.
>
>>---Would you say they are descendants of the Nestorians, and NOT the Assyrians?
>
>...they WERE all Nestorians (the rest Jacobites, Monophysites etc.)...not until the Euro discoveries of the 1800s did they all of a sudden realize "who we are". Until 1976 the Church of the East was the Nestorian Church of the East....in that year they added the name "Assyrian" and dropped Nestorian. All of the people of that region are descended from ALL of the ancients peoples, not just the modern "assyrians"....but it has no real meaning...especially not the basis to make demands for pieces of Iraq.
>>
>>As I've said many times, I don;t care what people say they are in private...but these nationalist idiots have been the real cause behind all the suffering our Nestorian people endured in Iraq and elsewhere
>>
>>---Would you say the Muslims take little blame for that?
>
>...no. I would say Arabs saved our people, as many admitted at the time of the Muslim conquest. Nestorians were heretics as far as Rome and Byzantium were concerned and you know what was done with heretics. Had the Byzantines conquered Mesopotamia and had time they would forced our people to convert to the Greek Orthodox Church, they would have wiped out Nestorians as they had damned and exiled Nestorious....the same with the Jacobite church. Our people were at war with each other with rival bishops each having their own armies...the Arabs came and put a stop to that as well....they cared nothing for our bitter rivalries, only that we keep the peace...this is all attested to in numerous real history books and we've posted the sources here many many times...we'll be happy to do it for you as well.

---I would appreciate that. Specifically any pertaining to bishops going to war with each other.

>...The Nestorian Christians were always susceptible to being lured by western Christianity...it started with Peter the Great's attack on Persia when our people, certain the Peter's Christiana rmies would improve their lot, took side with him and helped murder countless Muslim men women and children...when Peter left the victims turned on them and thus was born our stories of "martyrs", without telling the truth as to why the Muslims were furious with them...they did it again when the British came and lured them into fighting the Turks, their neighbors and those who allowed them their millet system, and once again, when the British got what they wanted, they "betrayed" us, though we betrayed ourselves...and then they came yet again and used our people as Levies, a colonial police force taking pay and weapons from the occupiers of Iraq to police a very angry Iraqi populace which had opened its doors and arms to save these ingrates when they were fleeing the local Turks and Persians, and most recently we did it again when we cheered this current criminal war against Iraq, declaring for the world to hear, and Iraqi officials back home, that this war would bring "golden opportunities" for Iraqi Christians, because the West would "save" out littlest allied arses. We have a history of sedition and treason yet we turn it around and say we were persecuted when we were PROsecuted for criminal acts against our own countries.
>>
>>>...it was their foolish trust in the British and more recently the Americans that has brought so much misery and loss to our people.
>>---This is where I get confused. Who do you expect these people to place their trust into after being under the thumb of Islamic fundies?
>
>...they were never under the thumb, as you put it.

---They and other minorities were forced to pay jizya under the Ottomans

Islam saved them...the western Christians would have wiped them out long ago...for milenia they have had their churches in Iraq and Turkey and Iran and Syria...if Islam wanted to wipe them out it could easily have done so any time these last 1400 years...but it didn't. You are suffering the effects of lying propaganda from our churches...read a real book someday. Muslims reacted against our people because of what we DID, not because of who we are, which is the way we like to put it....but world leaders and knowledgeable people know the real history, local reporters who buy into our crap do not.

>>
>>>..they are cowards who made sure to run out of Iraq and who now park their arses in America and Europe and spread this nonsense
>>---What nonsense are you referring to? The nonsense of them being Assyrian?
>
>...exactly. That and their cries of being massacred by Islam for not converting.


---They cite the deaths of Assyrians during the Armenian genocide.


...for four years now we have asked those who make such claims to give us only ONE instance when Islam murdered us because we refused to abandon Jesus, just one. And no one, not one of the assyrians who write this stuff all over the internet, has managed to meet the challenge...in the same time we have posted countless instances, by Christian historians no less, where Christians have murdered people JUST for their religion, or to convert them by force....we issue you the same challenge....just ONE incident mentioned by REAL historians and not missionaries or books of martyrs...just ONE.
>>
>>>like filth over the internet...and they are STILL doing harm to our people in Iraq...they cry that they have enemies, well go and FIGHT your enemies
>
>>---They are outnumbered. What do you say to that?
>
>...a marvelous excuse....tell it to the Qurds who have been fighting for decades. If you are too small to fight, then don;t sound off as IF you are eager to fight...especially not when our people are still surrounded by Muslims pissed as hell at what Christianity has done to their lands and families...it is not the time to call the kidnappers of your child evil names, not while he is still in their custody...if Muslims are as eager to slit Christian throats as these idiots claim,

---Is that what the Assyrian church is doing? Taunting/provoking muslim people? How so?

then why on earth arouse their anger by hurling such insulkts and lies and even saying we will get an army and go FIGHT them? Why, when in their anger the only Christians they can lay their hands on are the ones still in Iraq? America felt justified in murdering thousands of Iraqi babies because 19 people flew those airplanes into buildings when not ONE of them was Iraqi...if Christian America feels justified, and does so to this day, in killing thousands of Iraqis who had NOTHING to do with 9/11...then why can't Iraqis retaliate against local Christians for the crimes of foreign Christians...especially when many of them have declared that they should go and fight Iraqis on behalf of the West? Who has the greater justification???
>
>>--- Who exactly would you define as their (the assyrians') enemy?
>
>...the same ones they define as enemies...all of Islam, any Muslim and each other.
>>
>>...they are indeed OUR enemies, and we've been fighting them for ten years and more and we are winning...because we don;t run from them, like they ran from Iraq and continue running from us.
>>---Who is "they". Who is this "we"?
>
>..."we" is mostly the people who write on this forum and I would assume to some extent those who read here...which averages to 2200 people a day. And anyone else who dislikes lies and propaganda posing as history.
>>
>>> Why is this? Is there a list of problems that you see in the Assyrian community, or dislike christians, what exactly is it that you have against them as a people?
>>>
>>>...I just told you...
>>>a. we are NOT Assyrians....we were invented out of whole cloth by the Europeans and we can prove it and have, many times.
>>>
>>>b. these people constitute a religious sect, actually many of them, who decided, cynically, to adopt an assyrian facade because they knew they couldn't expect to be given a Christian enclave, or get any special rights in Muslim countries, or anywhere else, as Christians...but they thought they MIGHT get something if they became a "nation"....the lost Assyrian nation, to be specific. That is despicable
>
>>--What makes it despicable?
>
>...are you just typing? If you haven't understood so far then you can't.
>>
>>>and also a fraud and besides has led to much heartache for those in our community who were content, and still are, to live in Iraq as loyal Iraqis,
>>---I would like to discuss the merits of being loyal/disloyal to Iraq, but again, I'm not clear on which community you are referring to. Christian Iraqis? Chaldeans? Nestorians?
>
>...all Iraqi Christians...all Persian Christians...all Turkish Christians and all Arab Christians who have taken up this utter nonsense of being direct descendants of the ancient Assyrians etc., AND who call for a safe haven for Christians in Iraq, a territory, country, whatever you call it, based on their indigenous "ancestry"...that is an out and out lie and fraud
---They are indigenous to the region of north Iraq.

....all educated people actually familiar with this history know this...as do all Iraqis, Persians and Turks.....they will grant us our little game if we insist, but not to the point of yielding us anything significant, certainly not any land and certainly our claims to have been massacred by Islam...that is patent nonsense.

---Are you muslim?

>>>which drives these petty nationalists crazy so that they will do anything and say anything to get those people killed or driven out and thereby gain more "martyrs" to their cause so maybe some Westerners will feel sorry for them...and it is our duty, as members of the same community, to tell the truth.
>>
>>---Again, which community? What is this larger, truer community?
>
>...I just told you and it was evident in everything I wrote and Rshad wrote.
---Suryoye/Syriac?



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