The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: more

Re: more
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Friday, February 24 2012, 21:24:39 (UTC)
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>>...we should definitely seek the historical truth about our claims that we are direct descendants of the ancient Assyrinas...at best what we can say, and what I believe, is that whatever genetic material existed at that time is somehow still circulating around this planet..maybe more concentrated in Iraq though I don't know how you would prove that or if it even matters
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>---It doesn't.

...good to hear.
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>...we should admit that all the people of Iraq are descended from ALL the people who ever lived in Mesopotamia and that just as we celebrate the Akkadians and Amorites who "came from the desert" to add their genius to the people already there, so too did another group this time from the Arabian desert,
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>---Fair to say. I would recommend that if you want to build Assyrian's mature attitude, you do not come out with "You are a bunch of christian iraqis in denial"


...ah but you see, I don't. I've been told this so many times, "with your gifts (sic) you could TEACH and REACH assyrian yoots" etc. And my answer is always, "But I don't WANT to teach." Let them go and learn on their own, if it matters to them enough....I am no ones guru or leader or source for anything except, except as a means to convey actual historical writings on this subject.

...I don;t have a grand and lofty goal..as all these nationalists proclaim they do...they want to take back Assyria, they want a territory, they want to TELL THE WORLD, they want to TELL THE UNITED NATIONS etc. My goal is very simple and very specific and because my energies are focused to a fine point, I, and the others here, have succeeded at what we set out to do while all the assyrian heroes are still begging Europe to be saved or making empty threats against Muslims and Arabs et al.

...my goal is to expose these nationalists for the lying frauds they are...their untruths and lies and shameless propaganda are indeed MY enemies...and we have them on the run and have had them running for a long time now...not one of them dares stand and fight, meaning TALK...not one. All of us hope that each new fellow will prove the exception and actually stay to explore and add....

...just look at this ashur fellow...he careful avoids answering me, as if that will "save' him somehow...so look at the cowardly spectacle he makes of HIMSELF, I haven't done it to him...his words of LOL bravado hardly disguise the fact that he dares not answer a fellow Nestorians with WORDS, while at the same time he pretends to be a tough guy. Like we say over and over: these dweebs do our work FOR us!
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>>arrive to build yet another great empire and civilization and that we should not despise Islam because it isn't Christianity.
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>---I absolutely agree

...well, that's certainly refreshing...mind you, you aren't agreeing with ME...anymore than I am agreeing with Durant or Rashad or any number of sources...you are agreeing with the MATERIAL..whether you got it from me or a library or someone else doesn't matter....I certainly haven't produced any original thoughts on this subject...it just is new for us that one of US would say these things...and that's a shame too...as if the truth is toxic to our people.
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>>..and let it go at that...we should definitely drop the requirement we have asserted that ONLY Christians can be related to the ancient Assyrians and we should definitely drop any demands about a safe-haven or territory or Little Assyria when all of Iraq is our country.
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>---I believe the Aramaic-speaking people should have a safe haven, for the concentration and safety of their culture, if not for their lives.

...I don't. Using the word Aramaic like this is just code for Christian...everyone realizes it if you don't...for heaven's sake it is the liturgical language of our Christianity, or was for centuries...so let's not try to fool other people, yourselves, if you must, but not other people...there's too much foolishness already going on where this "identity" of ours is concerned...

...Christians were safe in Muslim lands so long as they behaved like loyal citizens...but since those governments were Muslim, our Christians felt conflicted being "loyal" to any Muslim entity for our priests and parents always told us that loyalty to the Church and Jesus was paramount...so how were we to feel loyalty to the people and governments whose religion supplanted Jesus? We can't and couldn't and probably never will...except for those of us still eager to remain in Iraq...and there are some who prefer to live there even under Muslim rule.

...besides it doesn't matter what you want or I want...the reality is that no Muslim government is ever, and I mean ever, going to put a Christian community on top of oil wells...and that's exactly what our nationalists have a greedy eye towards...it will never happen. If a safe haven is so important, more important that being loyal citizens of Iraq, then go anywhere in the world where there Christians and you will be "safe". A Christian enclave, that's all it will be, is the last place Christians will be safe in the MidEast...try a Muslim enclave in New York if you have trouble understanding why this will never happen.
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>>These claims and demands only inflame matters and make life harder on the few assyrians left in Iraq. No Muslim has ever insisted that we convert to Islam...no one has suggested it or demanded it, so I don't see why we have to consider it.
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>>assyrians have no leaders...some of them have some leaders...there can never be unity because they have long been divided by religious sects and the essence of religion is non-compromise with ones faith vs the faiths of others....so that is a pipe dream. They don't have to denounce any of them because none of them matter anywhere, not even to an assyrian of a rival faction.
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>---I think this is a very good point. However, I still belive in the Assyrian people's desire for their own self-identification with their aramaic/nestorian/chaldean/syriac identity. The fact is that these people will NOT accept your ideas as they are presented. You're asking them, essentially, to give up. I would say we love our own struggle, if nothing else.

...I'm not asking anything of them...I don;t care a damn WHAT they do...I only care that the truth be told, especially where our lies and slanders against Islam are concerned....I wasn't there but read enough vivid accounts of where this sort of bigotry led when it was used against the Jews in the 1940s...and I don;t that ever to happen again, to anybody. And yet here we are, permitting slanders against Muslims that we would NEVER allow towards Jews today...Christians are at it again...and I suppose after they murder six million Muslims, and confine the few left in a "homeland", they'll pass laws making it illegal to call Arabs "sand jockeys" and the rest of it....but I'm not going to wait.

..these assyrians of yours are doing damage to themselves but, more importantly, to any hope of tolerance and civility and a respect for the truth...let them take themselves to hell, if they must..let them get themselves wiped out by Americans and Arabs as targets and as collateral damage, if they must...but we will try our damndest to make sure they don;t spread their hatred and poison without being opposed every inch of the way.
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>>...the sane thing to do is what my grandfather realized was the best course when assyrians approached him join the British Levies because the British would surely "save us THIS time"...he said we would only be betrayed again, that we were being used and that our best hope for a successful future, unless martyrdom for Jesus was our real goal, would be to take King Faisal at his word, to become brothers to all Iraqis, to help support the new state, our new home, and become good Iraqi citizens...as we try desperately to become good American or Australian or British citizens...that's the best we can hope for...if it isn't finally too late.
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>---Great point. I think one of the problems facing this manufactured culture we call being "assyrian", is that it is heavily based off of christianity. Where you and I disagree may be in the fact that I think that if Assyrian intellectuals would go back to Iraq, and work on defining their culture to a greater extent, explore their common aramaic language, and most off all, enforce a culture and mentality where they give back to Iraq, they will be able to stand up and uplift themselves.

...I agree completely...but with this climate offear and anger and sectarian killing which the United States instigated and INTENDED to bring into being, this is not the time...besides no family man, no assyrian professional or intellectual (who?) is going to take such risks....Jews had little choice but to hide in Palestine after what the Christians did to them....there was no Jewish land they could go to besides that desert....with us it's very different...we are Christians and all the most advanced countries in the world are also Christian so that we're welcome anywhere and can succeed anywhere....so the likelihood of an assyrian going back to Iraq now to do as you suggest is nil.

..and you can bet on it that if one tried, aina and Aprim and all the usual suspects would make his life hell, insult his mother and everythign else for fear he will show that it is possible to live in peace among Iraqis, as it always was...this is something they hate so much that they will subvert any assyrian who tries it because their entire "strategy" is centered on getting even more assyrian killed, "martyred" is their term (though it only counts if a Muslim does the killing, otherwise they won;t mention your name because you serve no "purpose), so they can meet with Euros and "TELL THE WORLD HOW WE SUFFER!!! To win the right amount of pity there simply HAS to be more suffering, more dead assyrians, more poor ans wretched assyians for they have no other plan, no other means, no other "hope"...getting along in Iraq is the LAST thing assyrian nationalists want, or wanted.



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