The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

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Posted by pancho (Guest) - Wednesday, July 18 2007, 2:53:52 (CEST)
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You keep blabbing on "Christians did this, Christians did that", and you think none of us here REALIZE the harm that Christianity actually did, not just to us, but to all the world!

...I told you...I am NOT replying to YOU...when I reply to you...I am talking THROUGH you. I don't want and don't expect and don't care to KNOW you or CHANGE you...I like to think....and comment...and write. If you find anything you wish to challenge or shoot down etc....feel free.

...you may KNOW that Christianity has damaged the world, but you don't WRITE about it...you ONLY write about what you say Islam has done...so that it is relevant to remind you all that it is not Islam that started this war..it is not Islam that attacked a Christian nation...it is not Islam that has justified the starving to death of hundreds of thousands of babies...it was not Islam that brought us two world wars, barely twenty years apart...in one of which FIFTY MILLION PEOPLE, mostly other Christians, WERE KILLED...it was not Islam that brought us a war in Korea and then a war in Vietnam, in which a few million innocent people were murdered...it is CHRISTIANITY that has done these things...so, if you DO understand the horrors of Christianity, why do you ONLY mention the Mongols of the 13th century???

Well believe it or not, I know many Ashuraie that claim the same thing you do, and I also agree with you on many of those points, but you act like ONLY Christians did harm to Civilzations.

...they did the most...certainly since their inception...their religion STARTS with murder and human sacrifice...it includes, as a "ritual" the eating of human flesh and drinking of human blood...which it calls "symbolic". What would YOU think of a religion that had, as a "symbol", the screwing of children? After all, cannibalism and vampirism are the two greatest and most disgusting crimes EVER...and all humanity feels that way...why would ANY religion choose these two as a way of demonstrating "love"? Plus which this religion teaches young children that it's okay to gain some benefit, like eternal life, at the cost of murdering and rejoicing in the murder of a totally innocent person....if you did this on earth you would be a common criminal...who in their right mind wants to benefit at the expense of the murder of a wonderful man like Jesus...do you realize that if Jesus had NOT been killed "for you"...you would get no paradise? That's really SICK!

I think your claims would be more realistic if you'd just admit that ALL of the three major religions have done Tremendous harm to members of the other religions AND of their own, and that more people have been Butchered in the name of GOD than for any other reason!

...that doesn't go far enough...it doesn't explain where we are. First off, except for a piddling "empire" that lasted ten minutes and produced an ashtray or two, the Hebrews managed to only kill each other...they were the Keystone Cops of the old world and only recently have the muscle and license to kill thousands of people...as for Islam, from its very beginning the Christians went gunning for it, wanting to seize Arabia...Islam gave Arabs the stimulus they needed to halt the advance of Christianity and to expand...as any "apostolic" religion wants to do....ask Christians who only managed to gain "converts" by killing millions of parents and then "raising" the orphans "into Christ"...they also murdered Africans into Christianity...they murdered Latin America and North America into Christianity, as well as Europe...

...you all say that Nestorians went to China and India and Japan and "spread the word"...they did, but got nowhere...on top of that it was Pagan TOLERANCE which welcomed them and allowed them to preach and build churches NOT Christian "charity"...and you'll notice that not ONE of those countries "converted magically" at the mere retelling of the story of Jesus...instead there are today about the small numbers you'd expect if the original Christians screwed only each other, plus the few odd outsiders which you'll find in any culture...the point is that without an army and violence at their back, Christians never succeeded in converting any but an insignificant number...our own numbers in the MidEast point in the same direction...

I was born Christian, and I truly believe in ESHU MSHEEKHA as I've been visited by him at the age of 23, when I lost all faith in GOD. Through the dream, I was conviced that he came for me, and after explainig the dream to alot of people, they told me that I had a vision, and that I should consider myself lucky because he came to save me from my disbelief in him and GOD.

...believe what you want.

I won't go into details, but he came to me at a time where I was borderline Atheist, the only thing left was for me to declare it! I know it sounds corny, but I was saved!

...but millions were murdered in the name of that Jesus. It seems you can only be "saved" if you accept Jesus totally...isn't that what you all accuse Islam of doing..."saving" people who ACCEPT Muhammad and damning the rest? What's the difference?

This however, didn't make me go to Church more, or read the Bible, but it did make me realize that he existed, and that all he required of me was to believe in him and his good ways.

...there have been many good people with wisdom and humanity to spare...Jesus was only one...there were many, many others and many who were better than Jesus.

My belief in Christ is very personal, so personal that I haven't been to Church since my grandmother's death, about five years ago, and I don't feel guilty about it at all!

...fine. Go ahead.

I never really agreed with the Bible since I was old enough to understand it, and I realized awhile ago, that a lot of those Biblical stories were "Barrowed" from older Ashurian ones, the similarities were just too evident!

...sure...and Jesus is the JEWISH Messiah...the Assyrians never had the need for someone to "save" them...the Hebrews sure as hell did...they couldn't take a walk without getting lost.

My point in this, don't think all Ashurians just "BLINDLY" except things that we're taught,

...you blindly accept that you are "Assyrians"...I was told all the same stuff...it always seemed silly to me...and more reading, study and THNKING has shown more of the picture.

because I don't, and neither do a lot of good Ashurians that I know, as a matter of fact,

...you accept, blindly, that you are Assyrian...while you may have been skeptical about Christianity, you swallowed whole the whoppers told to you BY Christians about THEM being "Assyrians".

I don't know many Ashurians who DO take the Bible Seriously, but Still believe in Eshu Msheekha. Remember this, we were Christians wile Christ was alive, and there are historical records of this outside the Bible!

...name one. Just one. In fact there is every reason to believe that the very first converts to Christianity, in BetNahrain, were the jews living there (Adiabene), already outcasts of sorts from the cult of Jerusalem...had it not been for Roman armies and empire Christianity would have spread nowhere...and would be what it is today in BetNahrain, a smattering of small sects madder than hell at each other and hating everybody else.

...Jesus Christ has no relevance at all to ancient Assyrians, who had plenty of loving and wise people among them...he was the Jewish Messiah come to save JEWS...it was the Romans who improved on this "message"...because the Roman empire contained at least 100 separate nations and peoples and the Romans needed a UNIFYING religion to bind them all together...and a religion of meek and mild people, waiting on death to get their rewrds while giving to Cesar all that he asked of them on earth was JUST what Caesar needed.

You said yourself that nobody including the Ashurians just disapeared, but our awareness of our Ethnicity did, and was revived by Europeans in the late 1800s, so what's wrong with that?

...nothing. I still feel as stronlgy for the heritage and wish to see it and the land, modern day Iraq, protected...I make no distinction, however, between the various people who inhabited Betnahrain...they were ALL precious and their heritage needs to be protected...for the entire world.

What's wrong with a re-awakening of our identity? What's wrong with our re-awareness and wanting our own homeland again?

...because this identity is 100% Christian...not Assyrian. You HAVE a homeland, it's called Iraq...or was...it is now Kurdistan...doesn't matter the name...it is our homeland and we were always welcome there, so long as we obeyed the law..but, when you start talking about "my homeland" as a seperate entity which must somehow be torn away from Iraq, then you are committing a crime..you are preaching sedition..and that is what has made us unwelcome...never the Christian faith or the Assyrian identity...god lord the Iraqis are truly pround of their common Assyrian ancestry!

..if you believe Islam is "foreign" to Betnahrain and that Arabs should "go back where their religion and they came from"...and that all Muslims in Iraq MUST be Arabs who came from Arabia...then realize that Christianity was also a foreign import...from Israel..and if your logic is to apply then all Christians in Iraq, as well as in Canada, Australia, America, Latin America and Europe are JEWS, because their religion was born in Judea..and all of them should go back to Israel...because that is where their religion came from...and they are ALL Israelis...pretty silly...no?

You're totally entitled to believe what you want, and to say what you want, this I agree, but i don't have to agree with your ideas or views and you don't with mine, but tell me this:

...of course not...what a boring world that would be.

If Everyone is wrong, and everyone is trying to benefit from the suffering of our people back home, than what is the solution?

...there is nothing useful or good you can do about it from OUTSIDE...for you will only be seen, by the dominnant majority, as a friend and collaborator of the Christian nations attacking Iraq...if America didn't feel it had to discriminate between those people who actually attacked it and those who did not, but felt justified in murdering Iraqis for 9/11 when there were no Iraqis among those hijackers...then why must Muslims discern between "good" and "bad" Christians? Why can't they do as the Christians are doing and hate and suspect and kill ALL Christians???

The only real way to help is to help those people get OUT! You know damn well that if you or your loved ones were stuck back there now, after 18 years of a Christian-led war against the people and children of Iraq, you'd want nothing more than to get the hell out...but you want THEM to stay and keep a "presence" in Iraq...even if it's a presence in the cemetary.

Short of doing for them what you'd want done for you...the best thing you can do is tell the Americans and others to stop the rape of Iraq...but sending money to buy roofs, or medicines will do nothing...all you'll do is keep them there, you hope, and keep them barely alive and suffering until they ARE killed or suffer so much their lives and the lives of their children will be blighted forever...and if that happens, your nationalists will USE that to gain "PITY".

Give the kind of help you would want if you were stuck there.

Alen Barsin

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