The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

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Posted by pancho (Guest) - Tuesday, July 17 2007, 17:51:52 (CEST)
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In Response To: Proof?! (Alen Barsin)

Hello Fred,

You seem more disgusted with Christianity than with Ashurians, then you say it's ridiculous and stupid to consider ourselves as decendants of the ancient Ashurians and you tell me to bring proof that Christians were targeted during WWI.

...yes.

1. Ancestral Decendancy-You say we're NOT the decendants of the ancient Ashurians? In that case, then NO ONE is what he/she claims they are, not the Italians, not the Greeks, not Chinese, not the Indians, NO ONE!

...strictly speaking they are not. The Greeks of today are not the same as the Greeks of 500 BC. We all know that, so do they. The Egyptians of today are not the same as the Egyptians of Rameses' day. What we mean when we say "modern Greek" is that these are people born in a COUNTRY called Greece...an actual nation with territory recognized by the WORLD as a modern nation. Like I said, no one goes around saying he is a Gaul...that person is French...Gaul disappeared centuries ago...so did Assyria, as a nation of Assyrians.

..if you are born to French parents in Greece, you can get Greek citizenship...Greek nationality...that doesn't mean you are a direct descendant of Socrates.

But wait a minute, why do we STILL speak our native ASHURIAN tongue, and why do the GREEKS, ITALIANS, INDIANS, and CHINESE all speak THEIR OWN native tongue?

..you don't. You speak Aramaic, which was an international language spoken by the Jews as well as the Egyptians..it is the language of the Arameans, not the Assyrians...besides which you can learn French today, doesn't mean you were born in France and are "French"...anyone can learn a language. The Assyrian language was Akkadian...the language all the tablets are written.

If WE, as ASHURIANS/ASSYRIANS don't decend from our ancient fathers, than NOBODY ELSE does either!

...strictly speaking, that is true. No one can trace an ancestry back 5000 years...and we are all mixtures of everything....the Jews of today are an exception because they kept their ancient religion...we didn't. We adopted a new language, a new religion, a new culture with that new language and new religion...we lost our territory, other people lived there and mixed with us there...No Jew can say that he can change his religion and STILL be a Jew...

You keep calling us "CHRISTIANS" when we ALL want to be identified as ASHURIANS/ASSYRIANS!

..of course you want to be "identified" as Assyrians...that's the whole point. We were always Suraye to ourselves...which is the Greek form of "Aramean"...we NEVER called ourselves Assyrians or Aturaye until after the Europeans started calling us that...you all admit that it was the pope and the Europeans who started calling the Nestorians who returned to the Catholic faith "Chaldeans"...you all admit there was no such thing until the Europeans came to BetNahrain, yet you don't see that the very same thing happened to us, the Nestorians of BetNahrain...the Chaldeans say they speak a Chaldean language...you all say that CAN'T be...well, YOU don't speak an Assyrian language but an Aramaic one...and YOU never knew yourself as Assyrian until after the early 1800s.

You tell me to read a book? I have, and I do, what books do you get YOUR information from, that DEGRADES, TWISTS, and REWRITES the truth of our history,

...they do no such things...you get your "history" from Christian sources or, from books which have used old errors as the basis for new ones. Read REAL history books and try to think as one who studies to know, and not to PROVE.

which many people have BRAVELY devoted their lives to researching, knowing there will be SABOTAGERS like you discrediting them and our history?

...No one is discrediting anyone...merely thinking a little.

YOU try and PROVE to me, and our ENTIRE ASHURIAN NATION that we are NOT the continuing race of ASHUR?

...easy. First of all, you are not a "nation"...look it up. There was no mention, none at all, of the Nestorians claiming to be direct descedants, not until after the 19th century AD...just as there was no mention of some Nestorians being Chaldeans till the 17th century...you all accept the one but deny the other. Next...I can't and don't NEED to "prove" anything to you...knowing well ahead of time you will not accept anything.

YES, YOU, the hypocrite who doesn't mind RE-CREATING beautiful ASHURIAN ART while at the same time DESTROYING our ASHURIAN NAME!

...I am challenging YOUR notion that you are direct descendants...I am PROMOTING the ancient Assyrian Heritage. I don't mean to destroy YOUR personal belief...just challenge it. Nothing wrong with that.

YOU are the hypocrite by doing what you do here, insulting everyone and their effort who are atleast trying to contribute SOMETHING, little as it may be, to our cause!

...I insult no one. It depends what you mean by "contributing something"...as I see it you are contributing to the sufering of the Christians of Iraq...your aim is to use the Assyrian name to advance a Christian agenda.

Where do you think you get off trying to insult credible people?

...show me their credibility? Just because you all SAY something, doesn't make it true.

While many of our decent people are trying to do whatever they can to raise awareness of our suffering people back home, you devote ALL your energy into DESTROYING our efforts!

...let's say I devote my energy to challenging them...and it is not "Assyrian" suffering...it is not even "Christian suffering"..it is the suffering of some Christians who have preached sedition (look it up) and that is illegal everywhere...in America as well as in Iraq. The rest of you have tried to USE this suffering...to expand on it, to add to it, to even seek to get more of it because you believe this will win you pity...and then some powerful nation (sort of like a Messish) will step in and "save you"...but it is Christians who do this, not Assyrians.

You can NEVER prove that we are NOT ASHURIANS! You can only SAY we're not!

...the same goes for you...you can never prove you are Assyrians, just SAY you are. Your religion is not Assyrian, your language is not Assyrian...your place of residence is not Assyrian...and your food and dress etc. were shared by Kurds, Persian Turks etc...not even your names are Assyrian...they are mostly Jewish...only AFTER the 19th century did "Sargon" and "Ashur" and Nineveh" begin to appear...only after World War One did newspapers in America stop using "Suraye" and switch to "Ashuraye"...you KNOW the modern Chaldeans are an invention of the Europeans but you refuse to accept that modern Assyrians are as well.

If ANYBODY has proven ANYTHING here in this particular forum, it's YOU proving how ANTI-ASHURIAN you REALLY are,

...hardly. I devoted years to promoting the Assyrian Heritage...NOT a Christian one.

how ANTI-CHRISTIAN you are,

...I just tell the truth about your religion...don't blame me if you don't like its history, unvarnished.

and how you're a MUSLIM SYMPATHIZER who's very likely PAID by them to cause more damage to our already suffering people!

...I'm not paid by anyone. Islam is another knock-off of Judaism, like Christianity...I have no interest in Jew-based religions...if I were Muslim I'd admit it...why would I be ashamed of it? After all, it is Christians who have brought death and destruction to Iraq, not Muslims....Muslims are the ones fighting to DEFEND it.

I AM AN ASHURAYA whether you like it or not,

...go ahead. In any given day there are 1,345 people who believe they are Napoleon...

and guess what?, our people DIDN"T just disappear, much to your dis-satisfaction I'm sure!

...of course they didn't. The PEOPLE didn't...but the Heritage and even the knowledge of it did...mostly because the ancients gave up their Akkadian language and soon the history that went with it...it was forgotten for centuries...everyone KNEW of the ancients because they are players in the bible..but no one was SAYING that "I am an Assyrian"...not till the Europeans came. The Assyrian people who survived gradually were absorebed by all the people who moved into and ruled and conquered that region...just as the ancient Sumerians didn't "disappear" either,,,no one "wiped them all out"...but the awareness that they were Sumerians and then the actual culture, religion and language "disappeared...same as happened to the Assyrians. In that sense the Assyrians "disappeared"...

We know that Islam did the same thing...the Arabs brought their religion and language and conquered people outside of Arabia....the conquered people adopted the Arabic language and Arabic religion, and Arabic language and soon the Arabic culture and then identity...you all say the people were "Arabized". The same happened to the ancient Assyrians..they became "Arameanized"...they received the religion of the Jews, the language of the Arameans, which was also spoken by Hebrews, Egyptians and others...

What a shame it is to lose a wonderful artist and an intelligent person to our enemy!

...you are your own best enemies. It would seem "knowledge", not propaganda, is your real "enemy".

From an artist to an artist, I think you're great! From a human to a human, I think you need help! From an Ashurian to an Ashurian, SHAME ON YOU!!!

...you are not an Assyrian. Not by heritage or blood or descent..not even by culture. You are a Christian, member of some Christian sect...you seek to USE the Assyrian name to gain some advantage for your sect.

...thank you for offering me help...but I'm fine.

Last but not least, I was told, not by any books, but from an AMERICAN PARATROOPER of the UNITED STATES ARMY, who's deceased now, that there were NEVER 6 Million Jews who died in the JEWISH Holocaust, NOT even a Million! He told me, "Alen, it's all BULLSHIT what they teach you here in the history books, it was about 200,000 JEWS that died, NOT MILLIONS!"

...and you were told by an American president that there were WMDs in Iraq....people lie to suit themselves. I'm not surprised to find you deny the Holocaust...so do all Nazis.

He was part of the rescue team, and he said, "It was awful what Hitler did, but they (the Jews) weren't in the millions"!

...and you feel no shame for believing this?

Fred, you Believe whatever you want, because in your mind, you're right, and NO-ONE can prove you wrong, but don't ACT like you know everything about history, because OBVIOUSLY you don't!

...I just write what I think. Never said I know it all, or even very much. That is your position...you KNOW and no one can tell you ANYTHING...like what you just said about the Holocaust...shame on you.

Alen Barsin

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