The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> ..of course you do....

..of course you do....
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Wednesday, March 14 2012, 13:17:13 (UTC)
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>...there is a world of difference...the Universe isn't demanding people kill non-believers [/b]
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>You are changing the subject, as usual. We were talking about “existence”, “proof” and nothing else. Killing is a different topic.

...not to the people killed by the direct orders of your god, or under his influence.

...besides, you changed it long ago...it was supposed to be about what people DO when they believe in gods, and not about proving gods exist...neither would we discuss the validity of astrology or alchemy, those days of "debate" are over...and soon will be for this god-nonsense. Try to get back to the subject...I said over and over that there is no use in talking about what clearly does not exist...and there has never been any evidence that a god exists...and don;t tell me lots of people, and "scientists TOO", believe in their existence...people, and "scientists too", used to believe the earth was flat and whites had bigger brains than Blacks...I don't want to discuss Voodoo with you...I wouldn't care if people AND scientists believed in a giant carrot, Jesus, Muhammad or the Easter Bunny...I only will discuss what people DO when they hold these kinds of beliefs...THAT is something tangible to discuss...whether it's Jesus or Yahweh or my Pig is beside the point....kay?
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> you refused to respond
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>Not true. You wanted to start over from the beginning. So I said “let's start over with God”, and you agreed.

....and you had your chance to prove his existence...only you turned it around and asked me to prove he DIDN'T exist...and that's when I introduced you to my Pig on Mars, which you said was irrelevant....and I said your god was just as meaningless to me, so let's get off of god....kay?
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> if you believe a supernatural pig, and he would have to be, is living on Mars then ANYTHING is possible
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>I have already told you (briefly) why pigs on Mars do not exist. Once more:
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>1. A pig is made up of matter,

...not this Pig. This is a supernatural Pig and he works in mysterious ways....my supernatural Pig is no more natural than your super-human Jesus ...they are BOTH unbelievable....you just have to have FAITH.


has a shape and is subject to the laws of nature.

...clearly you have not met this Pig...for lo, he is neither subject to the laws of nature nor has the shape of a normal Pig....he is of eternity and sent unto us to lead us to righteousness etc. and etc.....you know the drill.

If so, then it is not supernatural.

...maybe not to non-believers, such as yourself...but to me he is as real as any god you believe in...now prove that he DOESN'T exist, the way I see him, not the way you see him.

It has been proven that there is no life on Mars or on any of the other planet that has been discovered so far.

...what is "proof"? Do you have to see the OTHER side of Mars before you'll believe...oh ye of little faith! I am not speaking of an ordinary Pig, any more than you are speaking of an ordinary man...you and I are speaking of the supernatural, the divine, the holy, the things that take FAITH to believe in and especially when they are IMPOSSIBLE to believe, you know, like MIRACLES!!!, Brother. With Faith ANYTHING is possible!!!
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>2. A pig is within the universe. It did not exist when the universe (space and time) did not exist.

...can you not get it through your head that I'm talking about a SUPERNATURAL Pig who defies all natural law? You are stuck in a materialistic construct...you simply cannot conceive of the spiritual, the numinous, the transcendent, or of the supernatural....I feel sorry for you, brother...and will pray for you...."oink, oink".

Therefore, it had a beginning. Anything that had a beginning must have been caused by something other than itself (i.e. the supernatural pig must have been caused by another supernatural being, which brings us back to God).

...no, no...the whole point is that this heavenly Pig existed BEFORE time, he IS time....he was not made of matter...he PRODUCED matter and existed since before the universe was conceived...and so all matter flowed from him...and all gods came from him too...because, and you really should try to remember this: all gods are manifestations of the same Pig...throughout history people have been in essence worshipping the same Pig....do you get it now?
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>3. If it did not have a beginning, then it would have existed before the universe. Nothing corporeal can exist outside space and time. A non-corporeal entity is not composed of atoms and it does not have a shape or form. Therefore, it does not take the shape of pig and there is no reason to call it a pig.


...but you're not seeing it properly...this Pig is NOT made up of atoms and muscles and bacon-fat, as ordinary pigs are. You're talking like an early Primitive who could only conceive of a God in his own image...you know; male, long hair, a beard and a lot of power and very very pissed off. We're past that time and age and into a spiritual age, you might say, the age of Aquarius.....this Pig is not ordinary...he can take any shape it pleases him to take. I'm afraid you just lack the proper spiritual dimension...you're too caught up in breakfast links, bratwurst, hot dogs and pork rinds to conceive of the inconceivable....I believe in this supernatural, super-porker Pig just BECAUSE he is so unbelievable!
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>Therefore, supernatural pigs on Mars do not exist.

...but of course they do, to those who have FAITH....which you seem sadly lacking, brother.
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> pigs exist
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>I have proven above that they do not exist. There is a difference between an “evidence” and a “proof”. There is no proof for God or deliberate design, but there are clues or indications for the possibility of a God. I mentioned two:

...you could mention 1000, it still doesn't make it a reality...but how people behave when they believe, that IS a reality....so let's discuss that and get off my Pig and your god.
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>1. The necessity of a prime mover

...people, and scientists, used to think worms were created by straw...so?

>2. The fine tuning of the universe

...who says it's fine-tuned? It has all sorts of nonsense in it, like this discussion.
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> the Old Testicles makes no mention of hell
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>It mentions heaven.

...no it doesn't....mentioning is one thing, there are no descriptions of heaven...or of hell, except as Sheol, a sort of misty area where souls, good and bad, perch like birds and eat dust...the New Testicles gives us explicit details of how sinners will suffer...for eternity. That only came with gentle Jesus.

As for Christianity, there is no explicit mention of life after death. Here is what the late pope said: “The 'heaven' or 'happiness' in which we will find ourselves is neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but a living, personal relationship with the Holy Trinity...”

...yeah, right. Utter nonsense, talking in tongues without defining a SINGLE word's meaning. You know if we needed any further proof that your gods are man-made it would be the way in which your bible has "evolved" over the years...well, actually, IT hasn't changed any, it's the same bloody mess it always was, and all the New Testicles does is give us an up-front, close and personal look at only ONE innocent person your god hounded to death...there must have been many more good people swallowed up in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah or any one of the other countless times your god swept all humans into the garbage heap, good and bad alike....but it is YOU, or your popes, who have changed...you all re-read the bible, discarding what isn't fashionable these days....what sort of "word of God" is this? My Pig at least remained consistent throughout the ages....but your god changes his morals and behavior as easily as he does his non-appearance.

...and who decided which books were to be included in the bible as the "official word of god" and which were to be rejected? Since when do humans decide what is from God and what is not from God? Who gave those men the authority to pick and choose...and who gives your pope the authority to read the bible differently, with a more "modern" twist?

...Your bloody bible teaches children cannibalism and vampirism, two of the most pernicious and hated evils of all time, frowned upon and outlawed and treated with loathing by almost ALL human societies...and yet these are central to your "God"....in fact, if you are as good as gold, as good as god, but REFUSE to eat human flesh and drink human blood, you will NOT get in to that butcher-shop of a paradise your pope is trying to clean up.

...and, as per an article in yesterday's paper, your god demands that very pious and extremely righteous Jews give babies BLOW-JOBS, but only AFTER mutilating them till they bleed after which the blood is sucked by the Jew putting the baby's bleeding penus in his MOUTH!!! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
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>It is here on earth. It is the state of being in harmony with God's will.

...there is no God...you have not proven he exists so stop talking about "him" like he has a "will" and YOU know what it is!!! How arrogant can you get?...you have not shown what HIS will is, only your own as you put it INTO his mouth...if you make a fantastic claim for a supernatural being it is YOUR obligation to provide the proof, not ask me to prove he DOESN'T exist...you have proven nothing except that you can repeat the same line over and over, but repitition isn't evidence, it is usually a sign that someone has nothing else to offer BUT repitition...and, again, you have failed to show he exists...and yes, for this fantatstic, supernatural, claim we need hard evidence, not conjecture.

...Once again I have to school you: in a court of law, on earth, you cannot use hearsay evidence for a trial of petty theft, and yet you expect people to accept hearsay evidence where the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE is concerned...a little silly, no?

...if such a marvel exists it should be no trouble for him to produce himself...but he can't and none of the other same "manifestations" ever have...maybe that's why you go from god to god to god, because sooner or later you realize that they are all unbelievable, so on to the next...and the next...and the next one after that. Belief in gods doesn't show that they are all one, it shows that none of them exist.
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> > let's finally start what we started, which is; what have people done with the BELIEF in gods.....not the EXISTENCE of gods, but the BELIEF in their existence.
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>Indians believe in God. They call him Ganish. What did they do?
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>… Indians and Ganish haven't brought the world two world wars and a Holocaust
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>You have contradicted yourself. You showed that belief in the existence of gods (per se) does not necessarily lead to murder. Your problem is not with belief in gods, but with belief in the Christian doctrines.

...all religions have brought death and destruction...but no religion has brought us as much as Christianity...and for THAT I can produce plenty of hard evidence...and we have, several times...and we have challenged everyone we can think of to show us that Islam has done anything even close to the bloody buisness Christianity has, especially in the modern era...we extend that challenge to you...and DON'T come back with what Mugwhump says!!!

...I mrely showed you that you were straying from the point...again. What does Ganish have to do with anything? No sooner do I remind you that we were supposed to be discussing BELIEF in gods and not their EXISTENCE than you bring me ANOTHER god!!! Can you never get enough?

..get over it...there IS no evidence for the existence of ANY gods and there never has been except in the credulous minds of human beans, who also believed soap caused disease....it was understandbale, once, but is very unbecomming these days, as out-moded, or soon to be, as touting a new experiment to turn lead into gold...get OVER it....hell, even your pope is trying to sell a new and "revised" version...so go all the way, stand on your own, take your knocks, be decent and die when it comes your time and have an END to it....stop being afraid of the Dark.
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> I fear you've simply tried to "keep up", for appearence sake...and I'm tired of slowing down for you.
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>I do what and when I like. There are thousands of forums and they are much more populated. Why wait for someone to visit your site?

...I also do as I please...I wait on no one's visit.....I'll remind you, yet again, that this all began when you wrote here to say that all religions are pretty much alike, which you later denied, only to come back and say that all gods are essentially the same god, which is the point I was denying all along...from that bit of confusion, on your part, we got off on Augustine and universes and watchmakers and all the usual carnival tricks you people use to dupe the unwary...I kept telling you it was pointless to discuss the existence of what you CANNOT prove, especially if you're going to claim fantastic powers for said being....I said it would be more fruitful to discuss what people DO with those beliefs, whether they believe in Isis, Ishtar, Mugwhump, Muhammad or Jesus....but you know you don't want to go there, so you dug up Augustine again and were off and running....in between all of this you alluded to the fact that I "hate Christianity"....no, I don't. I hate what people who believe in Jesus DO...did you hear that? What they DO! And I showed you the things they do that are despicable and can be laid directly to church teaching...and you took off around the universe AGAIN!

...Clearly you don't want to talk about what can be proven!!! About what people DO when they believe...and certainly not about Christianity...but that's only because you KNOW WHAT'S COMING if you once dare to address the subject...and you're afraid. Obviously, or we would have had the actual discussion weeks ago.

One last time....do you want to discuss what people DO, when they believe, or not? And please, leave Augustine mouldering where he belongs...and do NOT bring me yet another god to "consider" who "might, maybe, sort of, almost, could have, possibly existed"!

Let's talk about what exists....not what MIGHT.



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