The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> taking a lesson from Jassim

Posted by pancho (Guest) - Saturday, July 28 2007, 21:27:34 (CEST)
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..nbow that she's banned me, Maggie "answers"....through the magic of the internet etc, I can drag her over and have my way with her...

Date: Saturday, 28 July 2007, at 2:54 p.m.

To Dr. Joseph,

Dr. Pancho has pasted two reviews of your book: One from 1961, in which David Perley says, “"...Beyond this erroneous choice [of names], there is much in [Joseph's] thesis to command solemn respect and quicken insight. It is a work of erudition. I cannot withhold my personal admiration.

The key words here, Dr. Joseph are, “beyond this erroneous choice of names”

..no, those are not the key words..no more than "a work of erudition"...how can a book be erudite if its main themse is wrong? Dr Perley had to say SOMETHNG...he knew, unlike you, that he'd look a little foolish saying the book was "wrong" in its entirety...Dr Joseph could NOT have written an erudite work if he'd gotten his main theme wrong....this is merely YOUR fig leaf...as Dr Perley needed his.

which means you have taken the erroneous names given to us throughout history, and have capitalized on them,

...he has not capitalized on them...where has he benefitted...except by clearing up this grand error? He has benefitted US...and scholarship in general.

treating us the same way TODAY as the very missionaries and other Europeans you point to in your book which Nestorianized us for the sake of bringing us under their “Christian” umbrella.

..the Europeans did NOT "Nestorianze" us...it was WE who chose to follow Nestorius...that was back in the 4th Century...WHAT Europeans?

....man...you are WHACKO! Whatever you can think to say...like your lies about his publisher...libraries and reviews, you will say.

I, like David Perley, said the same thing about your book. I stated on the one hand that you are a LIAR if you say the modern Assyrians are not the descendants of the ancient Assyrians.

...Dr Perley didn't say that at all....he said HE felt Dr Joseph had used the wrong name...their dialogue was civil and fiendly...he did not have to KILL Dr Joseph...it was on this ONE point that hew as forced to differ...which Dr Joseph no pain either...they just DIFFERED...

..of COURSE you are not the direct descendants...that is abundantly clear...in the historical record and in your own character.

Then Dr. Pancho came up with the XENEPHON CHALLENGE for me, stating that if I prove you wrong, then you are indeed a LIAR. He stated that in your book, you say Xenephon never once referred to us as ASSYRIANS in his book, ANABASIS. He asked me to retrieve the book from the library to prove whether Xenephon did so or not, which would then prove whether or not you are a liar. I didn’t have retrieve Anabasis from the library. I had already read it. When I met Pancho’s challenge,

..and I said it was MY error to set up a test by which his book could be judged..that was My mistake not his...you failed to mention that you ALSO made a mistake..not one of procedure but of FACT when you said that the Peloponesian War was fought in PERSIA...

..there were better tests offered you...for instance show ONE incident where any Nestorian called him or herself an ASSYRIAN before the 19th century...and you have never been able to...to this day. I said THAT would be a better test of Dr Joseph's thesis that the Nestorians only began using that term AFTER the Euros.

by stating that Xenephon may not have referred to us as the Assyrians in that particular book, but he did so in his other book, EDUCATING CYRUS, written during the same period, whereby Xenephon during the entire book not only refers to us as Assyrians,

...he did NOT refer to "us" as Assyrians! How the hell could Xenophon, in the 3rd century AD have refered to you AT ALL! His orginal mistake in calling the ancient Assyrian lands "Median"...was corrected by calling that ancient land by its proper name, of SEVEN HUNDRED years earlier....which was indeed Assyria. All he said, in his correction,was that he'd been to the land of the ASSYRIANS..something which no one disputes...how in the hell does that become PROOF that Xenophon addmitted that "us"..meaning us today...are ASSYRIANS???

not once, not tens of times, but hundreds of times, but also chronicles the Assyrian armies strategies during that time.

..what the fuck does that prove except that he too...like Dr Joseph, knew ANCIENT Assyrian history? How does that translate into YOU being Assyrian?

Proving you, (his hero) a liar, sent Pancho over the edge, at which point he called me every filthy name in the book. Some scholar, ha? And he calls ME a rank amateur!

...as far as being a liar...you said there were no reviews of his book besides one by Eden Naby...you were lying...you said his publisher, Brill, was a print-for-hire outfit..you lied again...you said he PAID....and you even gave an AMOUNT, to have his book published, another lie..and you said his book wasn't in any libraries..one more lie. It takes no tortuous explanations to show you lied...it's there, in your own words...refuted quite easily.

...if I go over an edge over you..it is with gales of laughter at your pretensions.

...your "proof" that Xenophon called "us" Assyrians doesn't exist...all you've shown is that Xenophon corrected a mistake he'd made...something NO ONE disputes...how you turn that around as PROOF that YOU are Assyrian is amazing.

I also stated, as David Perley did, that on the other hand , your book has some merit, like ANY book. But as you can see from his rantings, that doesn’t go as far as David Perley’s statements.

...you did not...you dismissed the entire book plus all the accolades.

Dr. Joseph, given the fact that you came from Iraq as a young man, (un-known by any American, except the Power Elite) to study under a scholarship at Princeton, which is the Power Elite’s most important institution for training future Power Elite leaders of America, and funded by the Ford Foundation, which is part of the Power Elite, and your thesis, full of errors, whom your research advisor, (Philip K. Hitti) did not catch,

..but YOU did?

went on to be published by Princeton, the very school whom the Power Elite uses to disseminate information USEFUL to their own interests,

..they TOO are interested in "destroying assyria"??? Did you come by your paranois as a compensation for the world's refusal to grant you any prizes ot recognize your greatness?

makes you and anything you have written SUSPECT,

..as your repeated lies make you...Dr Joseph has not "lied"...you are twisting yourself into knots, trying to tear down Princeton and suspecting the "powerelite" of being out to get YOU. Is this YOUR way too of elevating yourself..by pretending that POWERFUL ELITES want to destroy YOU...because they fear YOU? You are crazy...

to say the least! Once you have written something, and it is released to the public, it is subject to ANYONE’S criticism, not just mine, as well as it becomes nearly “factual history” given the notorious “Princeton Prestige” and power behind it.

...critique all you want to....but read the book first.

Here’s Hitti’s profile and background:
Hitti was educated at an American Presbyterian mission school at Suq al-Gharb and at the American University of Beirut. After graduating in 1908 he taught at the American University of Beirut before moving to Columbia University where he taught Semitic languages and won his PhD in 1915. After World War I he returned to American University of Beirut and taught there until 1926. In February 1926 he was offered a Chair at Princeton University which he held until he retired in 1954. He was both Professor of Semitic Literature and Chairman of the Department of Oriental Languages. After formal retirement he accepted a position at Harvard. He also taught in the summer schools at the University of Utah and George Washington University in Washington, D.C. He subsequently held a research position at the University of Minnesota. Philip Hiiti almost single handedly created the discipline of Arabic Studies in the United States.
In 1945 he served as an advisor to the Arab delegation at the San Francisco Conference which established the United Nations

Now tell me, Dr. Joseph, HOW did Hitti supervise your thesis, which you wrote in 1956, if he retired from Princeton in 1954? Is it CUSTOMARY for a retired teacher to supervise the thesis of one of Princeton’s students? I think NOT! Moreover, since when does a language teacher supervise a history major’s thesis? Has this EVER been done in the ANY educational institution? I think NOT!

...man oh man...I thank you..from the heart of my bottom...you slit your troat to music.

That’s why you and your cronies are SUSPECT, and that’s why I say you were all in COHOOTS against the Assyrians, whose name and lands the Power Elite has tried to to destroy for decades now!!

...bliss...sheer bliss.

You got away with half-truths, and only because you served the Power Elite’s purpose! That’s the ONLY reason you were awarded a building in your name by the Power Elite! Again, I ask which educator has EVER been offered a building at a college in his name? Not even the GREATEST thinkers and theorists of the 19th and 20th century, like Einstein or Karl Marx have been offered a “building” of their own.

...I think you JUST read "The Power Elite".

Then we have another review by Johnny Walker, (sorry) Joel Walker, where he states:
“The Nestorians offered a pioneering study in the political and social history of the "Nestorian" or East-Syrian Church. This new edition, much expanded and revised, provides a lucid, reliable, and engaging history of the Church of the East from its origins until the late twentieth century.”

Tell us something we have never known before, will you? All you have to do is go to the archives of the Assyrian Church of the East, and you will gain the same knowledge, if not more. Moreover, did you, John Joseph, say ANYTHING in your book that had not already been said in the Flickering Light of Asia, published by Dr. Joel Warda in 1924, more than thirty years before you,

..yes...he showed, through sources and scholarship, how the Euros came to name us Assyrians...as you ALL admit they named the CHALDEANS!

(which my own father translated into Assyrian for its notable importance) or Death of a Nation, published by Dr. Abraham Yohannan in 1916, more than sixty years before you? I think NOT! In fact, I believe you got ALL of your information from these two books, providing us no more insight than any other learned Assyrian had already come up with, BEFORE you!

..these people are NOT scholars...or experts in this field...there is the question of DISCIPLINE..which none of you have...you merely roar through "books", pulling out things hear and there, willy-nilly, which you THINK makes a case for you...this is NOT scholarship..it is cheap partizanship and propaganda.

...but, keep it up.

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