The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> the battle continues...

the battle continues...
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Thursday, January 24 2013, 19:20:32 (UTC)
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...as stated many times this site exists primarily to debunk the myth of modern assyrian existence with the express goal of making the nationalist claim to things owed them more widely known and amply ridiculed.....for some time we were lucky enough to get some nationalists on here to help us make fools of themselves and their claims...but for some time they've all learned better and so you could say we've succeeded in our main goal...also we've been helped by the United States Empire and our own stooges who between them have managed to rid Iraq of most of its Christians...we are of course sorry for this, but since they made it happen, let's be thankful that in time there will be no more Christians in Iraq and hence this nonsense will die its well-deserved death and be put to rest once and for all.

...to whit; Ashur Bethshlimon has posted yet another long and rambling bit of nonsense pulled from the same place he gets all the rest...only this time, miracle of wonders, he did so in English, not Arabic...now, most nationalists view Arabic as the language of the enemy, the "usurper" to use another word they don't know the meaning of...Ashur must be the only assyrian nationalist to express himself, in Arabic, the language of the enemy...it would be like an American patriot writing in German or Japanese while this country was fighting for its life against both countries...a little odd. You'd think an assyrian nationalist would write in assyrian...only, it isn't assyrian, it's Aramaic...but even so, who not express yourself in "your" language...why choose that of your avowed enemy? Maybe he now wants to reach a wider audience, one not turned off by the language he expresses his assyrianism in...whatever the reason we here can only be profoundly grateful that the national Putz has given us this opening to whatever he has left of mind. I can't cram all of his rant here...but just a few points:


"In a Barrington Atlas of the Greek and Roman world by Princeton 2000, Vol II: “The names Mesopotamia and (As) Syria were sometimes used to include the alluvial plains of the Euphrates and Tigris. This statement is a solid prove that SYRIA is derived from ASSYRIA, and it appeared four times in the following pages 1211, 1271, 1279, 1325 of that Barrington Atlas."

..it is no "prove" all...besides which I'm surprised he would quote anything from any source connected to Princeton University since his type have had nothing but disdain for that same university when it graduated, with honors, and bestowed a doctorate degree on one John Joseph...who dealt amply with this bit of nonsense in his own book, published by Princeton University...it seems sometimes that university gets it "right"..although as usual Bethshlmon missed the point while trying to fabricate one to his liking.

...we have said a hundred times that New York is derived from Ye Olde York, in England...but that "derivation" does not bestow property right or British citizenship on New Yorkers, so that even if Syria was derived from Assyria, it does not make Aramaens into assyrians...it does not make modern Syria "Assyria".

"It was crystal clear that all the Christians in the Fertile Crescent about tenth century or before eleventh century A.D. were Islamized and Arabized to a degree that left only small Christian pockets here and there only except the Assyrians who preserved not our Christianity only but our Assyrian nationalism to this day."

...that is not crystal clear at all...because Bethshlimpon hisself has never once, in six years, provided one bit of evidence that any such "Ialamicizing" took place, or massacres of Christians, or forced conversions....what IS crystal clear is that there is no historical evidence for such claims, none...on the contrary, there is ample evidence, cited by Christian historians, that it was Christians who did these things, not Muslims....what is also crystal clear is that the church, and its assyrian minions have slandered islam in these ways as a way to distract from the fact that many Christians CHOSE to convert to Islam because it treated them better than heretic-hunting Christians did....there was no force used, and this is embarrassing for their church...so they spread this lie.

In regard of the ‘ Chaldaeans ‘ It is essential to clarify a very important point and that , the word ‘ CHALDAEAN ‘ in our language it meant a group of people who deal with astrology and such name could be applied to any people who practice such thing , and because the “ astrological cycles of the Chaldaeans could generate NEITHER ethnic unity , social solidarity; socially they were intelligible only to the elite …… the Chaldaeans lost their ethnicity in that of the Arabs as they had lost their truths in Islam writes Patricia Crone and Michael Cook in their book “ Hagarism “ page 88 “ and in regard of ASSYRIA again these two writers said the following :
“There were thus two distinct versions of Christianity within the Nestorian (the Church of the East): on one hand or the local Church of Assyria, a chauvinist assertion of a provincial identity…” page 57.

...as we've pointed out, Crone and Cook ALSO say that they course don't believe that there exist today descendants of the Assyrians, but that Nestorians INVENTED this identity for themselves...they merely report, in their book, what these people CLAIM< they don't accept their claims....Dr Joseph dealt with how these nationalists distort and lie about actual factual research...and this is nothing more than the usual selective editing and tweaking these people do..as if the rest of us are as stupid as they evidently are.

For the Assyrian identification of the kingdom of “ Adiabene / KHADHYAB “ see the ‘ Doctrine of Addai’ in W. Cureton( ed. And tr), ancient Syriac Documents, London and Edinburgh 1864, pp 15 where the disciples of Addai return to their own country of the Assyrians in the time of Narsai, the king of the Assyrians.
It is ironic that nowadays ‘ Chaldaean Rites ‘ who were originally Assyrians converted to Catholicism by the fifteen century and renamed Chaldaeans by the POPE of Rome Eugenie IV in the year 1443 – 1444 when at outset applied to the Nestorians of Cyprus – then later on was applied to all those converted to Roman Catholic . The irony is in what capacity the current Nestorian converts to be Catholic are considered the Chaldaeans of the ancient while firstly live in ASSYRIA and secondly there is no record before that were called Chaldaean! It is crystal clear that such theory is wrong and absurd in the same time, because the Chaldaeans of the ancient were the inhabitants of the remote south of Mesopotamia and never been inhabitants of Assyria in one hand, and then as we said above they were all Arabized and Islamized before eleventh century that they left no trace in their original homeland. Furthermore, our Church historical records from the eleventh century up to fifteen century, there were no mention of these Chaldaean period, to confirm that, our Assyrian intellectual Malpana Gewargis of Erbil/ Arbel in his over 95 lines of poem about our Christian fathers never mention one single time a person as a Chaldaean, while there were Arabs, Persians , Turks and Chinese and more solid that he mentioned the ASSYRIAN namse with pride five times, keep in mind these verses goes back to the thirteen century.

...no one goes to the bible for actual history...these religious tracts and writings are nothing more than the usual propaganda you get from all religions...Chaldeans are as "invented" as are modern Assyrians...neither is authentic. They are Iraqi Christians of various Christian denominations...end of story.

In regard of the Syrians/Syriacs or Suryaye/Suryoye , it is clear as we elaborated always that no matter where the name comes from as Assyrians are included as long as such name was denoted to those who became Christians in the Fertile Crescent , BUT as some of them claim that SYRIAC is a synonym of ARAM , so they are Arameans , in such case we say , YES there are Syriac Aramean Christians, but these are generally speaking the inhabitants of Syria proper, and not of ASSYRIA .

...as "we elaborated" begs the question; just who the fuck are YOU? Bethshlimon drives a taxi...Aprim is a mechanical engineer, or was...Rosie Malek Yonan is an actress...just what standing do these people have as academics or historians? None.

..and the name assyrians was NEVER denoted by those Christians, they only knew of themselves as Nestorians, first, then Nestorian Chaldeans and finally Nestorian Assyrians....their church only added the name "Assyrian" to their title in 1976, and for purely political reasons...until the Euros told them otherwise, our Christians never called themselves, or even thought, that they were any sort of Assyrians...or Chaldeans.

...the rest is even sillier than this....like I said: we have met our enemy...it is assyrian nationalists, and we have defeated them wherever and whenever they dared come out and confront us, whom they call THEIR enemies...we have sought them out, we have tried everything to confront them, even to dragging them out from hiding...when have they confronted those they claim as their enemies? Which of them is in Iraq fighting for "their country"...which of them goes seeking Arabs and Muslims to debate or confront? They only fight among each other, call each other names and except for killing their own Marshimun, have never dared confront anyone about anything...if anyone needed more proof that these people have nothing to do with assyrians, their cowardice and impotence should settle the issue.



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