The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> the god problem

the god problem

Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Wednesday, November 30 2011, 0:12:46 (UTC)
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Is there a God?

Which one? That's the first hurdle god-people have to cross...why not Thor...why not Zeus...why not Wotan....why not Ishtar? Why Jesus...why YOUR god and not mine...or his...or hers?

The problem with god-people is that they begin a discussion by assuming their god exists...or any god exists.

I can't start discussing the Constitution of the United States without first knowing, for real, that it exists. I can talk about the IDEA of such a Constitution...but only in the abstract.

I don't care if you call god Mugwhump, or Jesus...before you're going to engage me in a serious conversation about either of them and their virtues and benefits, or even their faults, you have to prove one of them exists...or else all we're doing is talking about your fantasy as if it was NOT a fantasy...and that's no way for growed-ups to carry on. Especially if you profess to be talking about serious matters...matters which are supposed to be left in the able hands of your as-yet fantasy god.

If you claim that the idea of god counts more than his name, and that belief in A god is better for people than no belief, then you also have to prove that....which you can't.

If all we're talking about is good behavior, and you claim belief in your god (and fear of him as well as desire for his rewards) is what makes people good...then I say children should be raised with fear of injections or trips to jail or whippings, when they aren't being bribed or spoiled...does that make for good humans? Has it?

Before we can discuss what impact God has on us we have to know there is such a thing. There's no point dreaming about the cream for your pie without knowing you have any in the fridge. To posit the existence of a God is to make a fantastical claim and those making such claims bear the burden of proof. Just because I can't disprove whatever ditzy claim you make does not mean that your claim COULD be true. It isn't my job to prove pigs fly on Mars, if you say you know they do....you have to prove it.

If, on the other hand, we're just talking about what "works", where raising human beans is concerned, then I say again that after 10,000 years of 30,000 gods; all have failed miserably (and don't try the Bush gambit of claiming without god, or Bush, things "could have been worse"...that also can't be proven)....and you can expect the same failure if all you're interested in is making people "behave"...because it matters HOW you get them to behave..and if you have to scare or bribe them into it then you haven't helped them mature beyond the level of frightened children...and that is YOUR failure, not theirs....and frightened children, in adult bodies, will choose badly very often and not display much maturity, without a lot of help...that's because those who were supposed to raise them and prepare them to be real humans took the easy way out by threatening and then bribing them into "good moral behavior"...which ain't good at all.

We need our best humanity to behave well...or as best as we can hope to....and raising us with fear, threats and bribes is no way to bring out the best in us...to be raised so is to be raised without REASON...and that's the one thing we have going for us that makes us human...and unique.

religion and god attack Reason...they try to make an end-run around it and just get to "behavior" as fast and as easily as they can...and that's the biggest part of humanity's problem in the modern world....we are non-reasonable and meant to be that way...that way religion and god have fertile ground for their nonsense.

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