The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> there you are....

there you are....
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Monday, July 11 2011, 7:24:06 (UTC)
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Arrow wrote:
>pancho wrote:
>>...then the first person to find a better use for your house has the right, nay the obligation, to take it from you and "advance humanity".
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>- House? No. I'm talking about a different situation. Let's take the colonization of North America. It is a huge land, it wasn't fully populated, and there were primitive nomads here and there...etc. The Europeans had the right to claim the land and build a great, civilized, and prosperous nation in which both they and the Native Americans will be a part of.

...okay then...there you are in Assyria...along comes a better civilization and they see that there is room for more people in Assyria plus which they are more advanced etc., which they prove by defeating you... you see where I'm going...you've simply repeated yourself...the issue hasn't changed, and neither has your dodging it...does an "advanced" culture have the right to wipe out what they call a "backward" people? They can do it, of course...but it's still a crime. I may put your bones to better use than you have, but that doesn't change the fact that I had to murder you in order to get your bones....you can't be this dense...is this merely another instance of you "stirring things up"? If that's all it is then there's no point taking you seriously...you are free to post as you wish.
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>>..everyone has their day in the sun, every civilization grows and develops and makes its unique contributions, at its own pace...this world has lost countless treasures and benefits which could have come had people and cultures been allowed to develop and mature at their own pace...
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>- So if they were left alone the Native Americans would have been building computer chips by now?

...we'll never know...we do know that the Arabs brought culture, science, architecture and a whole lot more to the Euros....we'll never know what benefits we would all have received as the Aztecs matured...or the Olmecs. Land in Europe 2000 years ago and you'd be justified in thinking this backwards and filthy people were better off dead.

What is stopping them from being developed now? Do they have to be alone and have their own state? Do they need all North America to be their own.

...their culture was taken from them, their children, language and religion was taken from them...their best people were killed off and the rest turned drunkard and begger because their hearts were more broken than we can imagine...had someone stepped in and done this to the Akkadians there never would have been any Ashurbanipal.
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>once upon a time the Euros were savages and the Moors and Muslims the most advanced...would you like to have had the advanced Muslims murder all backwards Christians, because they were less developed?
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>- No. I didn't say the less developed should be murdered because they are less developed. I am talking about who has the right to claim lands and natural resources.

...which they can only secure by murdering or enslaving the inhabitants...there is no other way...so, yes, you are talking about murder...name a time when this sort of conquest has been achieved without murder....I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or even that it shouldn't...I'm just saying you wouldn't like it if the shoe had been on the other foot...that's all.
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>>...people don't all start out from the same point...that doesn't mean they should be murdered for staring later, or lagging, or hitting a rough spot....you are not as bright as many people...should you be deprived of your property and humanity and rights because of an accident of nature, or timing?
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>- No. This is not what I meant.

..that is what you said...when it's repeated back to you, you may not like hearing it in this form....but you haven't said how you DIDN'T say that...you called the Arabs brutes, that word has a meaning...then you said Europeans, who I guess are not brutes and never were, had the right to take land and life from the Arab brutes...that is precisely what you said...which prompted me to ask you about the Golden Rule? Is this way of treating people okay to be used on you? That's all....
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>>..Arabs are not brutes...Arabs did not starve to death 700,000 Iraqi babies...Arabs did not exterminate six million Jews and others...Arabs did not bring the world two world wars or atomic bombs or the wide array of weapons of mass destruction the Christian West has and uses against weaker people...
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>- They're weak and they do not possess the power and the technology to do the above.

...they certainly had the technology and ability and opportunity for 1400 years...Arabs once made the best weapons, had the best tactics and certainly had the time and opportunity to murder all Christians within their reach, after all to Muslims Christians are cannibals and unclean...they could have done it...but didn't. Instead they protected them and provided a safe haven for them from their own bishops...it's right there in history, written by Christian scholars.

Why would you assume that if they were a superpower they would behave any differently.

...one reason is that when they were a Superpower...they didn't. The Arab world has not developed weaponry the way the West has...what little remained to them was sufficient for policing their own people...they did not need bombers and fighters and tanks and nuclear bombs because they did not go conquering people, after the brief surge in 800 AD and then with the Ottomans...but these were lands adjacent to them...the West roamned the world killing and stealing and you call this an indication of their superiority.
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>you did not respond to the point about how it would feel to you if someone used your argument to get rid of you and your children....because they were "more advanced" than you and could put to better use your "resources".
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>- Ofcoarse I do not want anyone to harm me. But concerning the resources, if I had huge tracts of lands just uselessly laying there and oil wells and so on and I am unresourceful to make any use of it, then yeah sure I believe it shouldn't belong to me.

...sure you do....of course you do. If you have an old old 1956 Chevy sitting on blocks in your driveway with its motor shot and rust spots and torn seats and you haven't the resources or interest to fix it up, you won't mind if someone takes it from you...you won't even care to sell it for the profit...you'll just allow whoever has a better use for it to take it...sure you will.
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>>....try, really try. It is in facing challenges and not avoiding them that the human mind grows...and if you try that you will be surprised at how your mind will grow, and then you too will be embarrassed by these arguments of yours, which make a lot of sense now because you're used to hugging your prejudices to your chest and taking them to bed with you....that is no way to be human.
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>Thank you.



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