What Can You Say???

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Posted by pancho from pool0181.cvx34-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (216.244.6.181) on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 at 0:23AM :

In Response To: WORLDWIDE DEMONSTRATIONS (Tony BeitMalo)

Tony,
You have the right to express your opinion just as others do; this is a free country after all.

++++Thank god Firas doesn't run the country...you'd see "freedom", Turkish style then.

I only hope that you keep this little fact in your mind as you post about this thing called peace and that is that only a very small minority shares your views in the USA and around the world.

++++Not true...polls consistantly show the numbers of anti-war people growing. And if we had the same mechanisms and machinery to get our message out there...they would have impeached this rat bastard of a Bush long ago. Considering the odds and the uphill battle...it is an amazing turnout, and has much wider significance than the total numbers alone would indicate.

If you add all those who demonstrated in U.S. cities in this past weekend, the figures might, just might, with much exaggeration, reach 1% of the American population. What does that tell us?

+++It tell us that against a constant onslaught by all the networks...in the most awful and biased manner ever...it ain't working. If you're going to base your assessment on the anti-war fellings of people by the number who turn out to demonsrate...then no one must be for the war as there are NO pro-war demonstrations anywhere.

Your post indicate that 1,000 demonstrated in Cairo, Egypt. Well, big deal, in a city of 10,000,000 some 1,000 demonstrated! What is that in percentage? Not even close to a decent fraction of 1%!

+++It's how these things start. Give it time...and consider how lopsided the resources are at the disposal of each side.

In other places throughout the Arab world the people are forced to demonstrate, ask me they used to force us to quit classes and participate in demonstrations in Iraq. Let me assure you the majority of Iraqi people are with a strike to remove this thug and his gang from power.

+++You won't mind if we don't take the word of people like you who apparently learned the same underhanded techniques you were subjected to...there is no real difference between you and Firas and Peter...and the people you rail against...you also only want one point of view to be represented...all of us who don't agree with you are banned...and if you could do it...you would force us all to go to YOUR friggin rallies.

I beg of you to answer this question for us, do you want Saddam to remain in power?

+++Ask Uncle Sam...he decides these things. We, and evertyone opposed to this war says they don't like Saddam...but you declare war against people you don't like. America tolerates all sorts of thugs...why not this one?

If Saddam is not removed by force who would remove him? Are you willing to wait another ten or twenty additional years to see Saddam dead? Are you willing to see his criminal son after that take the power and rule another 30 years?

+++That is none of our business. When the United States stops blindly supporting and using the land of YOUR lord, Israel...to drive those people mad...when it stops supporting tyrannical regimes in all the other countries surrounding Iraq...maybe things can change there. By attacking Saddam the U.S. has only strengthened his hold...like Castro.

+++The United States NEEDS a Saddam...needs Osama...and if they weren't there, they'd go out and make some. You are deluding yourself if you think America wants to help the Iraqi people or the Chrisrians there.

What is it that you want? It is easy for you to live in Los Angeles while Iraqis continue to be oppressed by this thug, isn't it?

+++You look pretty fat and saasy the times I've seen you in the Bay Area...do you sleep on a bed of nails?

What do you have to lose? Nothing. It is cheap to print few lines that you are a peace lover, fact is that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, exiled, imprisoned and tortured at the hands of this thug and his family and many are still being killed, tortured and oppressed.

+++That's a lie plain and siomple...meant for plain and simple people. He has done no such thing...but when have you had to back up anything you said...why break a long tradition.

Fact is that while this thug and his close family and friends have accumulated billions of dollars in wealth, Iraqi people, especially those in the south and the north, have lived in miserable conditions. Do you want that to continue?

++++They have done that because of Sanctions. Iraq is a wealthy land that had an excellent standard of living and universal health care and free education. You're talking about half-witted "intellectuals" like yourself...and the Christians in the hills...about as bright a people as you'll find in the hills of Appalachia.

You could be a good person, but you are being misguided about this whole affair.

+++I love this "misguided" thing...like Aprim is any sort of a guide to learn from. What Tony says and the rest of say is no more than any number of real thinkers is sayiong and countless people far more educated and bright and knowledgeable than Aprim will ever be.

How could you accept to see this regime in power, a regime that has oppressed our people in the last 35 years and forced into Arabization many of your own people?

+++It isn't for any nation to go in on its own and attack another country it disapproves of...it is against international law, and our own Constitution...what you are expressing is the same backwards thinking that allows a Saddam to ignore these same laws, as well as the rights of his own people...just like you are doing.

+++The blind support for Israel has polarized people in the MidEast...as it was INTENDED to do...so we could pick them and their resources off, and make villians out of them, whose children we wouldn't mind starving.

There is something wrong here my friend, something really wrong. If you really care about the Iraqi people and the over 1,000,000 Assyrians who live in Iraq, you must demand democracy for Iraq. If so how do you suggest this to be accomplished? Give us some alternatives please.

++++It is not for you or I or Tony to "demand" anything. We can ask...we can show by example...we can engage...we can befriend...force will make things worse, and it isn't our place or right to use it.

+++If you'll remember saddam used the same logic to go into Kuwait...also an act clearly contrary to International Law. he went it in because he "wanted to". He felt as justified as you feel...now that you want to do the same.

+++This is not the way. You're just used to issuing "demands"...and being ignored. It gives you a hard on now to think America will back you up..it wont.

Fred

-- pancho
-- signature .

Follow Ups:

on numbers - for Firas - Sadie 2:35PM 01/21/2003 () (4)

oops, that should actually be for Fred Aprim - Sadie 2:49PM 01/21/2003 () (1)
- Same Birds - pancho 5:18PM 01/21/2003 () (0)
so actually - Sadie 2:41PM 01/21/2003 () (1)
- Re: so actually - Tony 3:13PM 01/21/2003 () (0)

Re: What Can You Say??? - Tony 1:17PM 01/21/2003 () (0)

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Message:	: . : In Response To: WORLDWIDE DEMONSTRATIONS (Tony BeitMalo) : : Tony, : You have the right to express your opinion just as others do; this is a free country after all. : ++++Thank god Firas doesn't run the country...you'd see "freedom", Turkish style then. : I only hope that you keep this little fact in your mind as you post about this thing called peace and that is that only a very small minority shares your views in the USA and around the world. : ++++Not true...polls consistantly show the numbers of anti-war people growing. And if we had the same mechanisms and machinery to get our message out there...they would have impeached this rat bastard of a Bush long ago. Considering the odds and the uphill battle...it is an amazing turnout, and has much wider significance than the total numbers alone would indicate. : : If you add all those who demonstrated in U.S. cities in this past weekend, the figures might, just might, with much exaggeration, reach 1% of the American population. What does that tell us? : +++It tell us that against a constant onslaught by all the networks...in the most awful and biased manner ever...it ain't working. If you're going to base your assessment on the anti-war fellings of people by the number who turn out to demonsrate...then no one must be for the war as there are NO pro-war demonstrations anywhere. : : Your post indicate that 1,000 demonstrated in Cairo, Egypt. Well, big deal, in a city of 10,000,000 some 1,000 demonstrated! What is that in percentage? Not even close to a decent fraction of 1%! : +++It's how these things start. Give it time...and consider how lopsided the resources are at the disposal of each side. : In other places throughout the Arab world the people are forced to demonstrate, ask me they used to force us to quit classes and participate in demonstrations in Iraq. Let me assure you the majority of Iraqi people are with a strike to remove this thug and his gang from power. : +++You won't mind if we don't take the word of people like you who apparently learned the same underhanded techniques you were subjected to...there is no real difference between you and Firas and Peter...and the people you rail against...you also only want one point of view to be represented...all of us who don't agree with you are banned...and if you could do it...you would force us all to go to YOUR friggin rallies. : I beg of you to answer this question for us, do you want Saddam to remain in power? : +++Ask Uncle Sam...he decides these things. We, and evertyone opposed to this war says they don't like Saddam...but you declare war against people you don't like. America tolerates all sorts of thugs...why not this one? : If Saddam is not removed by force who would remove him? Are you willing to wait another ten or twenty additional years to see Saddam dead? Are you willing to see his criminal son after that take the power and rule another 30 years? : +++That is none of our business. When the United States stops blindly supporting and using the land of YOUR lord, Israel...to drive those people mad...when it stops supporting tyrannical regimes in all the other countries surrounding Iraq...maybe things can change there. By attacking Saddam the U.S. has only strengthened his hold...like Castro. : +++The United States NEEDS a Saddam...needs Osama...and if they weren't there, they'd go out and make some. You are deluding yourself if you think America wants to help the Iraqi people or the Chrisrians there. : What is it that you want? It is easy for you to live in Los Angeles while Iraqis continue to be oppressed by this thug, isn't it? : +++You look pretty fat and saasy the times I've seen you in the Bay Area...do you sleep on a bed of nails? : What do you have to lose? Nothing. It is cheap to print few lines that you are a peace lover, fact is that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, exiled, imprisoned and tortured at the hands of this thug and his family and many are still being killed, tortured and oppressed. : +++That's a lie plain and siomple...meant for plain and simple people. He has done no such thing...but when have you had to back up anything you said...why break a long tradition. : Fact is that while this thug and his close family and friends have accumulated billions of dollars in wealth, Iraqi people, especially those in the south and the north, have lived in miserable conditions. Do you want that to continue? : ++++They have done that because of Sanctions. Iraq is a wealthy land that had an excellent standard of living and universal health care and free education. You're talking about half-witted "intellectuals" like yourself...and the Christians in the hills...about as bright a people as you'll find in the hills of Appalachia. : You could be a good person, but you are being misguided about this whole affair. : +++I love this "misguided" thing...like Aprim is any sort of a guide to learn from. What Tony says and the rest of say is no more than any number of real thinkers is sayiong and countless people far more educated and bright and knowledgeable than Aprim will ever be. : How could you accept to see this regime in power, a regime that has oppressed our people in the last 35 years and forced into Arabization many of your own people? : +++It isn't for any nation to go in on its own and attack another country it disapproves of...it is against international law, and our own Constitution...what you are expressing is the same backwards thinking that allows a Saddam to ignore these same laws, as well as the rights of his own people...just like you are doing. : +++The blind support for Israel has polarized people in the MidEast...as it was INTENDED to do...so we could pick them and their resources off, and make villians out of them, whose children we wouldn't mind starving. : There is something wrong here my friend, something really wrong. If you really care about the Iraqi people and the over 1,000,000 Assyrians who live in Iraq, you must demand democracy for Iraq. If so how do you suggest this to be accomplished? Give us some alternatives please. : ++++It is not for you or I or Tony to "demand" anything. We can ask...we can show by example...we can engage...we can befriend...force will make things worse, and it isn't our place or right to use it. : +++If you'll remember saddam used the same logic to go into Kuwait...also an act clearly contrary to International Law. he went it in because he "wanted to". He felt as justified as you feel...now that you want to do the same. : +++This is not the way. You're just used to issuing "demands"...and being ignored. It gives you a hard on now to think America will back you up..it wont. : Fred

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